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Taronga Zoo Chimpanzee Troop

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Chimo, 28 Jul 2013.

  1. Osprey71

    Osprey71 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry that should have samaki. Not shabani.
     
  2. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    That's awesome! Hopefully we'll see more births in the next few months! Naomi (2001) is young and should fall pregnant relatively easily. Hopefully being on contraceptives for so long won't make it difficult for Ceres (1990) and Hannah (1993) to conceive.

    Will be interesting to see how these births affect the hierarchy. I'm guessing at the moment the hierarchy amongst the females is: Lani, Sembe, Naomi, Shona, Ceres, Hannah? Assuming Sembe is not expecting, Naomi having an infant could see her comfortably rise to the position of the second highest ranking female do you think @tdierikx?, obviously with Lani maintaining the alpha female position. Similarly, having infants could see Ceres and Hannah rise above Shona (and possibly Sembe)?

    Either way, the plans for infants in this group indicates Taronga Zoo has no intentions to export any of the females in this group.
     
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  3. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    It seems likely Taronga Zoo will take/have taken a new approach to the introductions now, giving up on the idea of the whole community coexisting as intended and moving towards establishing a group for breeding, and a group for retirement from breeding as has been previously suggested in this thread. The aim of introducing these three new females was to introduce new genetics, which Taronga Zoo stated could sustain the community for the next 50 years. Now it has been confirmed these females have been taken off contraceptives, it is obvious they are not going anywhere, and neither is Lani.

    I’m now favouring the establishment of a breeding group, consisting of the following females:

    Shona (1987)
    Ceres (1990)
    Hannah (1993)
    Naomi (2001)
    Lani (2002)
    Sembe (2008)

    Ideally, I’d move Kuma (1991) and her two male offspring, Furahi (2003) and Fumo (2013) over as well as Kuma is in her prime and should be bred at least once more. Kuma was never introduced to the new females and despite her strong personality, I see little issue in her introduction as she is well socilaised (unlike Koko and Kamili) and likely to assume the role of alpha female with little contest. Introducing Furahi would give Sembe an option to breed beyond her brother, Samaki.

    Of course, there’s the issue of the males. I believe switching Lubutu and Samaki with Furahi and Fumo will be a relatively conflict free move as Lubutu and Samaki will be reintroduced to Shabani, Shikamoo and Sule, while avoiding a reintroduction of the more problematic combination of Lubutu and Furahi. The only thing to consider is the possibility of Furahi killing the infants fathered by Samaki? Lani’s infant would likely be safe given Furahi is familiar with Lani but introducing Furahi to pregnant females would not be ideal. I guess the feasibility of this idea rests largely on whether Ceres, Hannah and Naomi have conceived already, and if so how advanced are their pregnancies.

    Kuma should be allowed to conceive in the main group (designated for retirement), before moving to the breeding group as the only males in her new group would be her two sons.

    The retirement group would then consist of all other chimpanzees, and be led by alpha male Lubutu and beta male Samaki. Options for relocating this group could then be explored, including the possibility of relocating the entire group to the new Sydney Zoo if and when it opens.
     
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  4. tdierikx

    tdierikx Well-Known Member

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    Sembe is closely related genetically to all of Taronga's breeding capable males, so I'd move her elsewhere... Lani could possibly mate with Shabani for more diversity of genetics. The same goes for Kuma really...

    As for a breding group, I'd pick Furahi and Shikamoo for breeding males myself - Furahi as Alpha , and Shikamoo as beta - for his calm demeanour that may act as a calming influence in the group. Shikamoo can also breed with Kuma... as he's already proven... *grin*... so I'd try to get her pregnant to him, allow her to raise the infant, then move her to a retirement group or another zoo for maybe another infant or two with an unrelated male.

    Alternately, they could possibly have Samaki, Shabani and Shikamoo as breeding males - and put them with the 3 new girls and Kuma - and possibly try to mate Shiba with Furahi or Shikamoo for one last infant before she retires from breeding.

    I'd move Lani and Sembe off to another zoo together, and possibly throw in Shona for numbers and a bit of familiarity for them.

    Sule could go to the breeding group, or off to another zoo for their breeding program. Possibly send Furahi off to another zoo also... I think he's too entrenched in his adopted position at Taronga to be safe to put with the others I've picked for the breeding group, and he's related to Kuma, so we wouldn't want him breeding with her.

    Retirement group could be Lisa, Lubutu, Koko, Shona (if she stays), Lani and Sembe (prior to moving out to elsewhere), and Kamili - then add Shiba after she has raised one more infant. Shabani could be in here, or in the breeding group, but I'd rather see if we could get his genetics passed on somehow... god knows he is the ladies man... lol! Plus if he manages to impregnate his fave female Kamili, all the better - but we'd need to separate Koko out when Kamili is due to give birth... and he can breed with Lani, but not Sembe (put her on contraceptives).

    That's my take at this point...

    T.
     
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  5. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Maybe Shona, Lani and Sembe could all go to Monarto Zoo then. Lani and Sembe for breeding (ideally with Tsotsi) and Shona to provide company and tip the balance of males to females in favour of the females at Monarto, which will bring some much needed stability to the group.

    I think Furahi and Shikamoo would make a good alpha/beta team for the breeding group. Their brothers, Sule and Fumo, could be brought in too, as well as their mothers. Sacha would cause little conflict or disruption and Kuma could of course be bred to Shikamoo again like you say. Lubutu, Shabani and Samaki could then return to the main group, and their mothers, following the natural pattern of males remaining with their mothers for life. Before this switch of the males, Shiba should be taken off contraceptives to allow her to conceive to Furahi, Shikamoo or Sule while they are still in the original group.

    The breeding group would then consist of males: Furahi (alpha), Shikamoo (beta), Sule, Fumo and females: Spitter, Sacha, Kuma, Ceres, Hannah, Naomi.

    The retirement group would then consist of males: Lubutu, Shabani, Samaki, Sudi, Liwali and females: Koko, Lisa, Shiba (and new infant), Kamili. Kamili could also breed in this group (with Koko removed of course prior to the birth).

    I think this plan (with Furahi and Shikamoo introduced shortly after the other three adult males) should have put in place from the start, but of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and in fairness to Taronga, they had no idea at the start that a whole group introduction would not be possible so this is not a judgement on them.
     
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  6. tdierikx

    tdierikx Well-Known Member

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    I like your 2 groups Zoofan15... well thought out and would work well I reckon.

    Taronga keepers - if you are reading this... the post above could work and even out the 2 groups into something more manageable...

    T.
     
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  7. Osprey71

    Osprey71 Well-Known Member

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    Trip to the zoo on Sunday. 08/10/2017. Original Chimps very quiet. Original group no were to be seen. But night den door was open. New group very quiet as well. Sembe was by herself. She was also up on the high ropes at one stage. Lubutu and Samaki were walking around together. then they sat at the front of the exhibit. They are so cute. Naomi and I think it was Hannah? were up one of the platform. Could see Ceres, but she could have been the one behind the tree. Couldn't see Larnie either. Late in the afternoon at about 14.00 there was some screaming coming from the chimps.
     
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  8. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    It seems like Sembe is keeping to herself a lot and that Ceres, Naomi and Hannah are all quite close now.

    Are any chimps looking pregnant currently@Osprey71?
     
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  9. Osprey71

    Osprey71 Well-Known Member

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    NO Pregnant chimps.
     
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  10. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Cancelled Import of Chimpanzee (2015):

    As many people will remember, the original plan was to import five new female chimpanzee to Taronga Zoo in 2015 to integrate with their community. This included two females from Kolmården Wildlife Park. These two females never arrived and the following year, Taronga revised their original plans to import them and instead proceeded with introducing the other three females, Ceres (1990), Hannah (1993) and Naomi (2001).

    I’ve just had a look at the European Studbook for Chimpanzee (2014) and a year before the planned export, Kolmården Wildlife Park held eleven adolescent/adult females:

    Negra (PR) 1972

    Frida (PR) 1972

    Mariana (BF) 1983 + Marko (M) 2008 and Mamba (F) 2012

    Fiffi (S) 1990

    Madicken (BF) 1992 + Mona (F) 2009 and Maud (F) 2012

    Maggan (C) 1997 + Mia (F) 2008

    Majken (S) 1999

    Maya (BF) 2000 + Malte (M) 2010

    Madeleine (BF) 2001 + Moa (F) 2011

    Marie (C) 2005

    Marit (C) 2006

    BF = breeding female; PR = post reproductive; S = sterilized; CF = contracepted; M = male dependent offspring; F = female dependent offspring;

    With this in mind, it seems obvious the two destined for Taronga Zoo were Marie (born 2005) and Marit (born 2006), as the other nine adolescent/adult females were either post reproductive, sterilized or had dependent offspring.

    Given that these two females were aged nine and ten years old in 2015 (the natural age for dispersal) and how well Naomi (fourteen years old in 2015) settled into the community, I’m kicking myself these females never arrived.

    I believe they too, would have easily integrated with the community, unlike Ceres (twenty five years old in 2015) and Hannah (twenty two years old in 2015) who have struggled to gain acceptance and as a result, two years down the line, the integration of the whole community has still not been achieved.
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2017
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  11. marmolady

    marmolady Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I'm kicking myself that Marit and Marie were not imported instead to Monarto if not Taronga. Such a shame. Ceres and Hannah might have done better at Monarto, with the younger three being integrated at Taronga.
     
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  12. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Found this article online about Fifi's daughter Faye:

    Taronga zoo paediatrics

    Thirty-odd years ago, the vets at Taronga Zoo in Sydney rang our Hospital for help with a four-month-old chimpanzee, who was not showing the normal lively activity expected, and was too weak to ‘hang on’ to her mother as chimp infants do at that age. The mother was experienced and had not previously had abnormal babies. Coincidentally, she died only recently, no doubt a very great-great-grandmother.

    Why I was chosen to go, I'm not sure, but our neurologist was miffed, especially as his previous offer to help out with ataxic flamingos had been rejected. As the mother would never have allowed us near the infant, she was sedated and the infant then brought back to the research animal house at the hospital. The infant appeared weak and lethargic, but with tendon reflexes present and greater muscle tone than a human baby. She fed slowly and appeared quite pale, but we lacked a ‘normal’ for comparison. We could not make a clinical diagnosis, but took blood for multiple tests. The infant was then reunited with the mother, after the latter was again sedated.

    Our haematologist rang me with news of hypersegmented neutrophils and other features of severe hypothyroidism, confirmed with thyroid function tests. The name on the request form was Faye Chimp, but the pathologist took some convincing that the blood was not of human origin. This true story had a sad ending. The mother was so excited to have her infant returned that she accidentally killed her. However, we would not have been able to treat the infant without keeping her apart from her family. Adult chimps, even in zoos, need to be treated with great respect. Biting off a human hand offering thyroxine would be easy for them.


    Faye was born 06/04/1978 and was the eighth of Fifi's eleven offspring. She died at Taronga Zoo 06/07/1978.
     
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  13. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yes, that could have also worked. Having reviewed the community at Kolmarden, where many females are now being contracepted or even sterilised for no other reason than to control population growth, it seems insane they can't send a few over to zoos in our region.

    In addition to Marie (2005) and Marit (2006), there was a mother-daughter duo Maggan (1997) and Moana (2008), who could have been exported anytime from 2016, when Moana reached adolescence. This could have been a good option also for Taronga as a mother/daughter combination would be highly supportive of each other and able to stand up to females like Koko etc. better than Ceres and Hannah did as individuals.
     
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  14. marmolady

    marmolady Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Kolmarden's population is of hybrids, so would be of no benefit to the regional breeding programme- hence the sterilisations I assume. I wonder what the zoo's long term goal is with chimpanzees, and if exporting the hybrids to make way for a pure subspecies might occur. Again, I feel that a cooperative programme between the Australasian chimpanzee programme and the American SSP would be much more mutually beneficial than the current arrangement with Europe, seeing as the SSP manages on a species level and could potentially be welcoming of genes that are- in our region- over-represented (i.e. the Taronga boys).
     
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  15. marmolady

    marmolady Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    What a terribly sad story.
     
  16. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    In 2014, Kolmarden had 25 chimpanzees. 23 were hybrids and 2 were West African chimpanzee. One was a sterilised female named Negra (wild born in 1972) and one was the breeding male named Claudius (captive born in 1984). He is the father of 17 of the 25 chimpanzees.

    From the 2014 records, it appeared they were maintaining 4 of their females as breeding females as they had not been contracepted following the birth of their last infant like others had in the group. I think the sterilisations of the two females born in 1990 and 1999 were little more than an attempt to control population growth, with so many females in the group.

    Similar to how Shona (born 1987 at Taronga) was sterilised in the 1990s, when there were multiple young females in Taronga's community in the early 1990s: Lisa, Shiba, Sutu, Samantha, Shona, Sumo, Sacha, Sally, Kike, Chiki, Cara, Cheena, Chunga, Ficha, Kuma, Melissa..... The export of 10 of these 16 young females no doubt help relieved the pressure. These days, with contraception proving more reliable, I doubt such a permanent contraception as sterilisation is considered in any young female in the region unless for exceptional reasons.
     
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  17. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    True, though I liked how the author was right about the "mother chimp" Fifi as being "no doubt a very great-great-grandmother."

    Fifi's great grandson, Lubutu (Fifi>Jojo>Lisa>Lubutu) provided her with six great great grandchildren and indeed a further three great great great grandchildren and of course after Faye's death, Fifi went on to have three more offspring including Ficha in 1981. :)
     
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  18. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Article about Snowy (Alpha Male)

    The Sydney Morning Herald from Sydney, New South Wales on December 30, 1995 · Page 3

    The Sydney Morning Herald
    Saturday, December 30, 1995
    Page 3

    SNAG at the zoo - laid-back Snowy lets other males monkey around

    Snowy is no paternal slouch: with Lisa he has fathered Lubutu, and with Koko he has fathered Kamili. Two other infants born to Ficha and Sandra died. But Snowy is happy to let two other males, cheeky Louis and young Gombe, move in on his turf and mate with the females (Louis's inappropriate family background doesn't matter because he has had a vasectomy). So zoo staff are anxious to do genetic analysis on the newest chimp baby, born this month, to see if Snowy has fallen down on the job again.

    The zoo's animal behaviourist, Ms Margaret Hawkins, thinks Snowy is too much of a nice guy to be a brutal macho enforcer like some predecessors: "He can be quite impressive when he's in the mood, but he's not always in the mood." He came to Taronga from a New Zealand zoo in 1986 when he was three. Because he was a male outsider, his full integration into the group had to be carefully staged over six long and painstaking years. Even the younger females beat him up at first, and one overprotective mother almost tore his arm off and left him requiring major surgery. Ms Hawkins thinks he did not learn to be aggressive because, as an outsider, he had no family and friends to back him when he needed to assert himself. As well, he became the dominant male perhaps a decade younger than he could have expected in the wild. Then again, it may be that he's just a nice guy w ho has had greatness thrust upon him.

    And, like all political bosses, sooner or later he'll face a leadership challenge: on his record so far, you'd have to guess that Snowy will gladly relinquish the job.

    Snowy is a '60s kind of guy, into peace, harmony and free love. But as the dominant male of Taronga Zoo's large chimpanzee colony, this 11-year-old hairy ball of muscle and sinew should be routinely belting the daylights out of his male rivals and generally shouting, biting, slapping, stamping and ruling the roost. The prize for such aggression is the right to sire the most infants. The duty is to wield a complex political power, offering protection and forging alliances, policing strife-makers, rewarding supporters and controlling a group.

    But Snowy doesn't give much of a toss for all that. He'd rather take up his favourite spot by a small waterfall in his enclosure, sit by himself and think. Normally, this would not matter, but Snowy's top position in the colony is the result of much social engineering by his keepers. Rivals have been moved on and allies encouraged so that Snowy's sperm can contribute to the colony's genetic diversify, a priority for a species with a bleak future in the wild. But new genetic fingerprinting studies by the zoo's conservation biologist, Dr Bronwyn Houlden, have confirmed that w hile Snowy has mated successfully since becoming the dominant male, he has been letting subordinates get away with a fair bit of philandering.

    Using recently available technology that resolves human paternity suits - chimps and humans share 98.4 per cent of their genes Dr Houlden has found that another male, Monte, is the real father of Snowy's supposed first offspring, Shabani. The studbooks have been amended accordingly.
     
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  19. marmolady

    marmolady Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I wish I could have known Snowy, he sounded a wonderful male.
     
  20. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    It was an interesting article for sure. I do agree the system was rigged against him socially. What on Earth made them decide to transfer a 3 year old into an established community, where every other chimp has family, I don't know.

    Waiting until Snowy was 7/8 years old would have ensured he was old enough to stand up for himself against the females, but not so old as to present an infanticide risk to infants in the group. Plus, this would have allowed him more socialization time in his natal group, where he was mother reared.

    Sounds like Taronga made a signficant effort to ensure he was the only breeding male though (vasectomising Lewis etc. and exporting Danny, Mervin and eventually Monte). I wonder if Spitter's son Gombe (1988-2001) was also vasectomised as part of this strategy. I always thought it was strange that Lubutu (aged 7) impregnated Shiba in 2001, not Gombe (the 12 year old alpha male), especially considering Shiba had no respect for Lubutu as the alpha when he took over that same year.
     
    Last edited: 26 Oct 2017
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