This afternoon, an elephant handler was killed in austrlia. A 60 or so yr old man was found dead in the star dust circus eklephant pen, unknown whetehr death by ele or suspected heart attack. More news to hand , check google news.
A circus with animals is an abomination, and every once and a while it is comforting to hear of a performing mammal getting revenge on its trainer. That might sound brutal, but years of abuse in tiny confinement is worse than a swift kick from an elephant.
Here is a quick thought about zoos and cirkuses: A zoo has to spend millions of $ in order to "elephantproof" their elephant enclosures, with reinforced steel and such. This is only fair, to prevent accidents. Beside that fact, there are tons of rules and guidelines on how to keep elephants. A cirkus has almost no guidelines or rules. I have witnessed the place where a cirkus elephant escaped in Denmark in June. The only thing containing the elephants when they where not parading through town, promoting the cirkus, was a piece of string. A piece of string!? It was so thin I could hardly even see it! Where are the rules and guidelines there? Beside that, it's cruel to keep animals like elephants and sea lions in a cirkus, with no possibility of doing any natural behavior at all!
change your quote a little bit so that a few words are changed. Replace the word circus with the word zoo and swap elephant for tiger and would you still feel the same. I think the usual whingers will use these two recent incidents as ammunition to attack both zoos and circuses. I personally think the days of animals in circuses are numbered and i think thats great.
It depends on the animal species and the individual circus. I personally don't have a problem with domestic animals shown in zoos (and could think of a workaholic Border Collie or two that would love performing in a circus as often as possible) and I wouldn't generalise/demonise all circusses. If many believe that the future of the circus (if it has any future at all) is a circus without animals, OK (shrugs); although I doubt that complete animal-less circuses will have the attraction they had (at least for me when I was a small boy) if they have all become Cirque du Soleil look-alikes / imitations. And I'm wondering whom the zoos will then give their surplus animals to...
Boof: Most likely 95% of the people here at ZooBeat believe that circuses with exotic animals are horrible and should not be in existence. I was only pointing out that fact and nothing more.
Not just since Michael Moore, I'm suspicious when it comes to percentage statements of the opinion of people given out as "facts"... If the majority of the public feels no longer comfortable with the sight of exotic animals in a circus (I'm not always too comfortable with that, too), then after banning exotic animals from circuses said public should also take care where to accommodate said exotics (I can already see the zoos saying "Sorry, we're full") properly-and to pay apt compensation to the circus folks-because after all, it was the sensationalism of our ancestors and us that brought the exotic animals into the circuses. What's "Boof" referring to?
snow leopard says that it is comforting to hear that an animal has got revenge by killing a person that has confined it. I was wondering if he had the same feeling about the tiger at the zoo. Was that comforting? I then mentioned that i don't like circuses that keep exotics. I guess if was confusing the way it was written.
In the thread "San Francisco zoo tiger escape", Jaywa, referring to this elephant incident, says "It hasn't been decided what will happen to the elephant - but I think we all know." The inference, unless I misread it, is that the elephant will be euthanised. That's not going to happen. An elephant, in this country at least, is so scarce, valuable and just plain unavailable that merely killing a human will not lead to its death. Abu (with Ashtons circus) lived a long life despite killing three people over a 17 year period.
Boof: I believe that circuses with performing animals are appalling, especially when big cats live in tiny cages that barely allow enough room for them to turn around. Elephants are chained at times for 20 hours a day, and then are forced to do headstands and an assortment of other tricks. I've seen the lifestyles of circus mammals in videos and at actual circuses, and shudder to imagine myself in that type of situation. I had an instinctive reaction to praise the animal involved in the death, when in reality it was an extremely unfortunate accident. As I've stated on here on the San Francisco tiger escape thread, I've actually visited the almost 70 year old lion/tiger house at the San Francisco Zoo and it is a horrible little enclosure. Some people view the tiger episode as sad for the big cat that was shot to death, some people feel pity for the zoo visitor that was killed, and still other people believe that being shot to death by the police is better than pacing back and forth all day long in a terrible exhibit until death. It is sometimes difficult to decide where to place ones empathy.
@snowleopard: Some bits of Your comments here remind me of Jack London's "The Madness of John Harned". The anthropomorphisation of animals doesn't bear their true nature in mind and causes often more harm than good to them. And although Homo sapien's population of 6 billion might lead some people to the conclusion that a human life isn't worth much, in comparison to species with populations down to 10 or less, the contrary is true. Therefore, imho, scornfulness torwards our very own species and even satisfaction about an animal-attack related human fatality isn't appropriate (although I'm really pissed off that another zoo animal had to be shot due to human incompetence). And about the bit with the pacing animal being shot to stop the stereotypical behaviour: that often comes from members of the anti-zoo lobby who would prefer the extinction of a species to keeping them in human custody; an attitude I can't follow.
i totally agree with you about circuses and animals like big cats and elephants, snow leopard. i just thought your other comments were a bit strong.
after seeing these poor animals a couple of months ago i have to say i got a wry smile on my face. does that make me a sadist? but follow my train of thought....work cover closes the zoo-the two elephants are sent to WPZ or Australia Zoo or Mogo Zoo or Jarkaris Zoo or new zoo SA, i dont care. those animals werent being looked after properly, and i think i raised securty concerns on the relevent thread a few months ago. of course the element of risk is increased when you are moving two 3 tonne animals in and out of a trailer once or twice a week.
No, but a bit too callous maybe. Don't get me wrong-I'm comfortable with people mishandling animals being punished. But with the death of a person related to an animal, the animal involved almost always gets its (mostly undeserved) share of negative consequences. If this fatality will result in the two elephants getting better treatment, then this is a welcomed positive result-but it doesn't make You smile about a death of a human.
Elephant might just friendly pat him. It is not her fault she is 60 times heavier. I'm not comfortable with elephants either, but animal welfare society in Britain found that big cats in circuses are as comfortable as in zoos.
Jurek7: "Big cats in circuses are as comfortable as in zoos". Really? Those beast wagons that circuses use are hideous little creations, and many big cats live, eat, sleep and die in their own feces. Occasionally they are let into a caged ring, whipped and yelled at, and then forced to leap through flaming hoops. In the off season they spend their holidays in grubby exhibits that are generally atrocious. The animal welfare society in Britain needs its head examined.
To be sure - I'm ambiguous on this one. Here it is: BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Circus animal ban 'not supported' "Circus animal ban 'not supported' There is no scientific evidence to support a ban on using wild animals in travelling circuses, a report suggests. The Circus Working Group said there was "little evidence" the conditions these animals were kept in were "better or worse" than other captive environments. The academic panel was created to consider the scientific evidence from both sides of the debate. Ministers have proposed a ban on some animals and will consider the working group's findings. Its report concludes: "There appears to be little evidence to demonstrate that the welfare of animals kept in travelling circuses is any better or worse than that of animals kept in other captive environments." Transportation The six-person academic panel, nominated by animal welfare groups and industry representatives who formed the working group, said it had found no evidence that regular transportation adversely affected animal welfare. It said that, while being kept in a circus meant the animals were more confined than in the wild, that did not necessarily damage their welfare. The panel concluded that animal health was generally good in travelling circuses and it was difficult to make a decision as to whether evidence of "stereotypic behaviour", such as pacing, showed poor welfare. There are fewer than 50 animals involved in travelling circuses in the UK, including a retired but still touring elephant, seven tigers, five lions, a number of llamas, zebras and snakes. But the Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses report by the chairman of the working group - Mike Radford of the University of Aberdeen - said animals such as tigers, elephants, sea lions, zebras and camels were still widely used in European circuses and a decision in the UK would be closely watched abroad. He said: "Our present state of knowledge about the welfare of non-domesticated animals used in circuses is such that we cannot look to scientific evidence for a steer in the development of policy. It is, ultimately, an entirely political decision." 'A travesty' But the report said changes needed to be made, as travelling circuses were not covered by any kind of animal welfare regulation - such as that afforded to animals in zoos - except standards all individuals have to maintain, and the requirement they register with local authorities. The government has proposed the ban on certain animals, alongside other regulations such as standards for over-wintering sites. The RSPCA, which formed part of the welfare sub group of the working group, today called for a ban on wild animals in circuses. Dr Rob Atkinson, the organisation's head of wildlife science, said: "Circus animals are kept for most of the time in close confinement, in abnormal social groups, exposed to forced movement, human handling, noise, vibration, and cage motion. "Allowing the use of wild animals in circuses to remain lawful would be completely against the spirit of the Animal Welfare Act - and would be a travesty." Jan Creamer, chief executive of Animal Defenders International, who sat on the welfare sub group of the working group, described the study as an "utter waste of time and effort". "We warned that Defra's insistence on only looking at scientific studies would result in too little evidence, because this is not a subject that has been of academic interest - so the studies are not there. "However, there is a great deal of observational evidence including studies and video that indicates that animals in cages on the backs of lorries, constantly travelling in deprived and unstable environments, compromise animal welfare. "What we need is a dose of common sense in this decision." But Chris Barltrop, chairman of the industry sub-group of the working group, said the report was "tremendous". He also said the industry was prepared to accept greater regulation. "This report is not the end of the road because we haven't yet achieved the goal of ensuring the future of the circus, which I believe is an important amenity and cultural feature. "But I think this is the first day of what could be a very positive future for the circus industry," he said. Environment Secretary Hilary Benn said: "I am very grateful for the group's work which will contribute to the debate on the welfare of wild animals in circuses. "We will consider the report's findings carefully." "
Jurek7: Thanks for pasting the report onto ZooBeat. It is amazing that there are still plenty of circuses with performing exotic animals travelling around the world. It will take another couple of decades to weed them out of existence.
