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David Hancocks on Elephants......

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by patrick, 19 Jun 2006.

  1. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    jelle and michelle,

    melbourne zoo certainly do have the facilities for natural breeding. i know there has been much talk of AI, but melbourne's enclosure was designed in such a way that elephants could be properly separated or introduced in this way. the enclosures for each sex are inter-connected.

    taronga on the otherhand will be reliant on the cows being walked to the bull exhibit (which is on in another part of the zoo) if the zoo is to evenually initate natural breeding.
     
  2. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    Hay guys,

    Bong-su and mekapah have been tried to be breed for many years, i have footage of him mounting, and implanting his ... in her, succesfully, and for many years after repeated behaviour it was unknown why she never fell pregnent, its no known tht she is infertile, but bong-su is a very healthy male, very fertile indeed.
     
  3. Michelle

    Michelle Member

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    Yes Patrick the mz exhibit is inter-connecting so all animals can be together or separated. The talk on AI is about sex selection. And yes Tarongas exhibit has not been planned very well if they have to revert to PC management its a breeding nightmare.
    Zoo Boy for many years the mz ele keepers were suggesting that BS ..... was to small. Now they have deemed MK not suitable to breed because of her age it is to late to start. They do not know that she was infertile before. As many females at her age who have never concieved reproductive organs will shut down and they become infertile. Eles when breeding it is not enough for the male to just get inside the female it has to go in along way. As I stated in an earlier post we have inexperienced males that are being taught to mate alot of the time they do enter but it is not far enough or for long enough.
     
  4. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    woaah, is it just me or is it getting hot in here?
     
  5. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    No its not just you getting hot Pat, But I wondered how it was done, gee looks like we lean something everyday, wow.
     
  6. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    thanks mark. make me sound like a pervert.
     
  7. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    HEHE hehe
     
  8. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    come on guys, back to elephanst and not your undying perfection to each other...

    now when i was in tarongas barn, i never saw any crush like facilities, were i no melbourne has a very comprehensive set out side
     
  9. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think the zoo bosses at Taronga should sit back and have a bit of a rethink about where they are going with this elephant plan of theirs, I would sergest that they enlarge the new Elephant exhibit enough to house TWO bulls (each with there own yerd and night house, and with inter-connecting yards (to the cows) or if not ship the new imports out to dubbo, also in the mean time look at bringing in a MORE mature male around 18-20 years of age from another overseas zoo so we can kick start a breeding program NOW.
     
  10. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    Well, i beleive that before to long, the eles will be at dubbo, and i carnt wait, even the zoos themselves said they have backup plans ready to go if the lawsuit didnt work, and the plans for the bredding centres at dubbo and werribee are ready and mapped out. also did you no tht 1 year after they arrive, in conjunction to the law suite, the zoos will hget revewied and if not up to scatch of the trials dismission, the eles will be made to go dubbo and werribee, or even be taken of the zoos.
     
  11. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Mark,

    I think that if AUS zoos make an approach to an Indian zoo - Guwahati f.i. maintains 5 bulls alone - a surplus male elephant might be forthcoming. In Europe a current surplus exists for certain zoos with male offspring (f.i. Emmen and Rotterdam zoos, with several males at 8 years at a French zoo).

    You would probably exclaim what with 8 years is too young. However, these boys have experience of their fathers breeding to cows which is a definite plus! Also, most are able to reproduce at 10-12 (allthough naturally that would not be occurring).

    Jelle
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2006
  12. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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  13. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree with what you are saying Jelle in regards to a major step forward from 1990, sooner would have been better, but, better late than never. I really wish our major zoos would bring in a couple of yonger bulls for the so called breeding program, If it was up to me I would have them here a.s.a.p. but my hands are not on the wheel, I can only hope our zoo leaders have enough IQ to work this one out for themsevles as I feel they may not be listering to hard to anyone at all, I hope I am wrong. another problem in our region is the lack of zoos which mean our zoos have to be even more focused.
     
  14. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Mark,

    What is the current plan for breeding Asian elephants? Just, Melbourne, Taronga and Perth to maintain+breed the species?

    What about the Auckland females? Are these included also in a future breeding plan?

    Any further zoos that might be involved in the project along the line (further imports and also more breeding bulls)? Can Monarto, Werribee or Mareeba become involved in this effort?

    Jelle


    Regarding focus, I think the Ozzie zoos should seriously look into the issue of thinking about future relocation of surplus offspring now (f.i. all male locations are springing up in Europe to accommodate the growing number of bulls in zoos. If no bachelor holdings were forthcoming that would have been a real management nightmare and sometimes still is).
     
  15. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    Jelle, As far as I know they are the only three zoos here at his point that have plans breeding Elephants, to tell you the truth I am finding it hard to follow what they are doing here with many of the animals we hold in our zoos, as alreadly said on here the baby male going to Taronga is only very young and will be some time before he can be put into a breeding program?.As far as the two females in Auckland zoo are concerned I wish I knew, I think Nigel is looking into that, he maybe contacting that zoo. I am not sure what Australia zoo is planning in regards to Elephants as its very hard to find out what their plans are there, the three females they have are almost 50 and are leased to them. There are a number of species here being phased out of our collections and with an import ban on birds now and I think on hoofed stock as well the number of species being held now is likey to drop somewhat to an all time low. ( good thinking by zoo mangerment). I have no idea where we are going Jelle????.
     
  16. Nigel

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    Auckland Zoo

    I have asked the Auckland zoo what is the current state of affairs re their ideas of breeding elephants .
    I am still awaiting a response . But previous experience with emailing that zoo usually results in an answer , even if it is slow in coming .

    I think we can currently assume that until I hear anything to the contrary , we will assume that their last response still stands ; ie they hope to try AI on the younger elephant .
    However , I do agree that they had better start soon and get a move on !

    When I hear news from them , I will let you all know .
     
  17. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Mark,

    You mention this import ban. Surely, there is a regional collection plan (RCP)in place? I would figure that Australian zoos should focus their attention on collective imports of those species they intend to maintain for an ascertained 90/100% genetic diversity in their collections.

    The RCP current inventory should assist in determining what species in Australia have a sound genetic base for population management purposes. The latter should be the policy document on which to base which species need to be imported. Only in that manner will it be possible to have a strong negotiating base with vet. animal management authorities, I guess.

    Personally, I think a blanket ban on imports of all birds and hoofstock is a senseless and politically difficult arguement to defend. What with ex situ conservation breeding and in situ conservation projects. F.i. bongo in Australia need new blood! Where will one get it if no imports may be made. It is simply a recipe for local extinctions over time. And I was of the impression that zoos have an important role in showing wild animals in their near natural habitat in an enclosed environment for as many people as is possible to see. What with the conservation message? And what with animal welfare (surely springbock are not going to be happy on their own in a zoo, they need a herd structure to prosper).

    What is your opinion? Or any of the other regulars here?

    Jelle
     
  18. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    the ban is very easy to defend

    well jelle, as a man from the land, i have to say these bans are for thebetter of the country, as our economy relies heavily on agriculture, any possibility of disease is diasterous, and our economy will crumble. we nned to preseve australia, as its the only true large island nation, free of many diseases that plauge the western world

    i mean i would love to see new animals, and there has to be ways around it, as if something effects us, the economy falls, and we wont have any zoos at all.
     
  19. ZooPro

    ZooPro Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with Zoo Boy's comments on the import restrictions - without them, we run the risk of bringing diseases into the country, that we have so far managed to avoid.
     
  20. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    We do have an off shore quartine station way of the western Aust coast on the cocas Keeling Islands where the new Elephants are due to go, we have alreadly brought in Black rhino through there from Africa so maybe we can make more use of this?, With the high tech blood testing we can do these days some of these tests can take a matter of hours instead of days or weeks like they used to and lets not forget zoos are also quartine stations as well, so with an animal bred in a zoo and then transfered to another zoo both of them are doing blood tests before animals leave and when they arrive.