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Dutch Ape Thread

Discussion in 'Netherlands' started by ShonenJake13, 26 Feb 2016.

  1. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys!

    Thought this might be a nice place to talk about all things ape in good old NL :)

    To start things off, here's a list of the zoos that have apes and the numbers of them at the time of writing!

    Amersfoort = chimpanzees (12, including 10 PTV)

    Artis = chimpanzees (9, including one PTS and one PTV) (Margot, Leen, Amber, Sabra, Quincy, Saphira, Vizuri, Wakili, Ajani)
    western lowland gorillas (10) (Shindy, Dafina, Binti, Akili, Shomari, Dayo, Bembosi, Shambe, Douli, Shae)

    Apenheul = bonobos (12) (Hortense, Jill, Zuani, Bolombo, Zamba, Kumbuka, Besede, Yahimba, Makasi, Monyama, Kikongo, Ayebi)
    western lowland gorillas (14) (Mintha, Mandji, Jambo, Kisiwa, Nemsi, Gyasi, Mapasa, Wimbe, M'Fugaji, Iriki, Tayari, M'Zungu, Chama, Jabari)
    Bornean orang-utans (13) (Radja, Silvia, Sandy, Kevin, Josje, Wattana, Binti, Amos, Samboja, Dayang, Kawan, Kesatu, *unnamed male*)

    Burgers' Zoo = chimpanzees (17, including one potential PTT and five PTV) (Mama, Tepel, Jimmie, Marlene, Fons, Moniek, Roos, Jing, Gaby, Tesua, Morami, Giambo, Moni, Erika, Tushi, Raimee, Ghineau)
    western lowland gorillas (12) (Bauwi, N'Gayla, Nimba, Makoua, N'Aika, N'Washi, Nakou, Nukta, N'Hasa, N'Kato, Madiba, N'Irale)

    Beekse Bergen = chimpanzees (?, including PTV)
    western lowland gorillas (4) (Uzuri, M'Bewe, Kidogo, M'Kono)

    GaiaZOO = western lowland gorillas (9) (Dalila, Makula, Tamidol, Sangha, Loango, Mosi, Ayo, Zola, Nala)

    Ouwehands = western lowland gorillas (6) (Bitono, Jah, Bitanu, Popa, Baloo, Imbizo)
    Bornean orang-utans (6?)

    Blijdorp = western lowland gorillas (10) (Annette, Tamani, Aya, Bokito, Nasibu, Tuena, Ayba, Tonka, Aybo, Thabo)


    So to kick things off, anyone know how many chimps there are roughly at Beekse Bergen right now?
     
  2. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member

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    In your list you forgot the Chimps kept at the Stichting AAP at Almere, don't know however the number kept at this zoo/rescue-center.
     
  3. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    Yes sorry, I was counting actual institutions that are counted on Zootierliste, not rescue centres :)
     
  4. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Why one zoo, keeps so much orangutans at one place (13)? They not live in big groups, why they not sent some of them in other zoos without orangutans, or there are not any zoo with proper conditions who would house the orangutans?

    There are just 2 orangutans (Bornean) in the whole Balkan peninsular (3 EAZA members), and yet they are in Belgrade zoo Serbia (wich is not EAZA member).

    I think it is better the numbers of particular species of animals to be limited to certant number in zoos (eg. bornean orangutans up to 6 individuals maximum), because some unwanted thing could have bad effect, like teriorisam for example, or highly contagious disease like fly for example.
     
    Last edited: 23 Mar 2016
  5. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    On ZTL there are listed two Dutch zoos that hold bornean orangutans, the other in Rhenen (Ouwehands Dierenpark)? And none wich hold Sumatran orangutans.
     
  6. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    As a Dutch person I go a lot so first of all I would like to point out that you shouldn't criticise how many animals a zoo should have. You wouldn't like Howletts and Port Lympne in the UK clearly!

    Apenheul have a large, extremely spacious house specifically designed for the orangutans, with multiple (connectable) islands for them to live on. There are two adult males, or cheekpadders, and multiple females and their young, just like there would be in the wild in a given area. The orang-utans are allowed to go anywhere they want in the enclosures (either with or without fellow orang-utans); the only ones that are kept permanently separate are the cheekpadders.

    The zoo is quite capable of housing that many, and transfers orang-utans when necessary. Only recently did they transfer a male, Willie, to Chester, and a female Katja to France.

    Compared to Bornean orang-utans there are barely any Sumatran orang-utans in Europe. Check on Zootierliste if you don't believe me. This is why there are none in the Netherlands.

    Apenheul would not have so many orang-utans if they weren't extremely good at keeping them.
     
  7. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    Also, considering they are the only holders of bonobos in the Netherlands, and they have the largest group of gorillas in the Netherlands as well, I would think it's safe to say flu isn't going to be a problem.
     
  8. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Allright, that's big success for the zoo.

    I primarly taught for security reasons for the animals, being concentrated at one place.

    But, for Sumatran orangutans, I can't find the EAZA Great Ape tag from 2008, but there were aproximately equal numbers of Bornean and Sumatran orangutans in Europe (about 160 Borneans, and 140 Sumatrans, and about 50-60 hybrids.)
     
  9. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    How you mean.
    For example if some new strain of Highly patogenic (avian) (swine) (horse) (dog) (human, etc.) influenza virus appear, like from birds (like in the last few years in the Netherlands, when there was an export ban for birds from the Netherlands), and if that virus could infect apes and other animals, that would be a big problem and many animals will may become infected (with or without letal effects), besides strictly caution procedures taken. These viruses are changing every year and new strains are appearing, and are very contiguous, neccesiating use of HEPA-filters for exaust and entering air in the enclosures.
     
  10. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    In 2011 there were 321 orangutans across Europe according to that year's studbook. There are still far more Bornean orang-utans than Sumatran orang-utans (I don't know the exact number but I can attempt to find it). I don't know why there are no Sumatran orang-utans in the Netherlands.

    As for the flu thing, some of the most common viruses apes get (just like us) are influenza or the common cold. There are many strains but zoos that have a lot of species of ape (take Twycross, Stuttgart, Apenheul, La Vallee des Singes, Frankfurt whatever) will be prepared to notice signs in their animals and will separate them as soon as something appears most of the time, or will try to heal them straight away. They will also try and spot signs in their other apes.

    And barely any apes across Europe have died from some insanely powerful virus in recent years; that doesn't mean it's not going to happen, but that does show that zoos are ready for that sort of thing. In recent years Apenheul have lost very few of their apes, and all down to either old age or something out of their hands (Karl the orangutan who was over 50 years old, Lobo the gorilla who was over 40 years old, Merah the orangutan who drowned unexpectedly etc.)
     
  11. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    165 Bornean, 146 Sumatran, 25 hybrid and 2 unknown in Europe (including two collections in Israel if we're playing by Zootierliste rules) as of 26 December 2012. And guess where the two unknown are? Serbia. So that may be why they haven't transferred any over there, as they don't know if they're hybrids of which species.
     
  12. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    They are assumed to be Bornean due to their darker coats, but they may be hybrids.
     
  13. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    It is partly chance and partly historical. For example Rotterdam had a very good record breeding Sumatran Orangs in the 1950-60's era until they lost most of them to an epidemic of Monkey Pox. Apenheul just happened to acquire Borneans originally and have just continued with them since.
     
  14. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but the possibility of appearance of some disease, will never quit. Look at the example above by Pertinax, about monkey pox and how the virus wipe out the Sumatrans in the zoo.

    Otherwise, from infectious diseases, apes in zoos most commonly die because of respiratory infections (mixed, viral, bacterial.), and because of tapeworm - Echinococcus wich develop cyst in various parts of the body, including lungs and brain. That is quite a shame for modern time, to have such cases (echinococcosis). The plant food (especially leaf vegetables) for apes should be troughly washed even if it is needed with detergent for dishes, to discard any tapeworm eggs, and sources of supply for such food should be safe and free of tapeworm eggs.
     
  15. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't dismiss it. I know all of this, you don't need to tell me. On my profile you can see I plan to be an ape zookeeper some day so I have researched all of this. Detergent in food wouldn't be a good move for any ape no matter what the circumstance, but thoroughly washing the food is important yes.
     
  16. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    Also I don't want this thread to become a hostile thread. I started it for updates and info/friendly discussions surrounding the apes of Holland, not for debating why some zoos shouldn't keep the animals they do and for what reason. That should be talked about in an entirely different thread.
     
  17. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Yes of corse, I don't like hostility, altough I may behave like that. Sorry for that. It's in personality.
     
  18. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry about it, just a friendly reminder :)
     
  19. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of the orangutans in Apenheul, should probably mention that the unnamed male was named Baju.
    Also I got one of the chimps in Arnhem wrong; Tepel has died, Geisha is still present in the zoo.
     
  20. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    I just wanted to add that I wash my raw food, with soapy detergent. I troughly wash with detergent lettuce leaves, cabbage for prevention of ingestion of eventual tapeworm eggs, harmfull bacteria (like Listeria or Escherichia coli O157:H7, etc), or I wash with soapy detergent, oranges, apples, tomatos, cucumbers etc. for protection from eventual pesticides, bacteria, or even viruses like hepatitis A virus from eventual infected picker of the fruit :p I would practice the same for animals in my eventual zoo, though.