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Auckland Zoo elephant herd now in the works

Discussion in 'New Zealand' started by Chlidonias, 4 Mar 2009.

  1. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    Local news programme 'Campbell Live' just had a bit on how the Auckland City Council has now approved the funding for importing more elephants and building a large-enough enclosure to house a breeding herd. I only saw a bit of it, but it had the Zoo's director saying they are planning to increase the current enclosure six-fold, and the elephants would be able to be seen from outside the Zoo.

    The Campbell piece hopefully should be online some time later this evening (after the programme has finished), so if I can find the video I'll post it.


    I did a search and found this from yesterday: Should Auckland City fund a new elephant herd in the middle of a recession? - 03 Mar 2009 - Your Views - NZ Herald Blog
    following the article are several pages of comments from people saying yay or nay
     
    Last edited: 4 Mar 2009
  2. PAT

    PAT Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I'm glad to here it.
    I don't know what the quarantine situation is in NZ but seeing as the quarantine cantre on Easter Island has closed down I bet they're wishing they had done this with Taronga and Melbourne.
     
  3. Ara

    Ara Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with it Auckland - it'll be great for the whole region.
    Brace yourselves, however, for squalls of indignation from the bleeding-heart animal libbers.
     
  4. taun

    taun Well-Known Member

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    This is good news for the Breeding program in your region. Have they any ideas on the likely number they are thinking of keeping?
     
  5. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

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    i support this plan across all levels...

    i support it from the point of view of the ASMP for Asian elephants.

    i support it because of the constant good work Auckland Zoo does for the in-situ conservation of many of the other critically endangered animals it maintains.

    i support it because Taronga and Melbourne Zoo have shown, so far, that ZOOS can at least breed their elephants; and if Auckland Zoo's enclosure meets or exceeds the standards set by Taronga and Melbourne than we can look forward to reports similar to those released by the Australian zoos showing that these animals are thriving.

    i support the plan because I agree in investment in cultural attractions, not least zoos which have, if their potential is realised one of the most significant mandates of all (over and above art galleries, sport stadiums etc).

    I support this because whilst $13 million might seem like a lot, realistically even in an economic crisis it isnt very much,,,,Governments and councils waste money, tens of millions of dollars all the time on hair-brained schemes. health and education initiatives, rebranding Govt. depts. any investment in a tangible piece of public infrastructure to me it represents a great and very much long-term investment.
    tourism, public education, recreation etc. a great zoo enhances a great city; think San Diego, Singapore and Sydney all have MAJOR zoos which are MAJOR drawcards. though i doubt tourists will specifically fly across the ditch just to see elephants, a day at the zoo may just enhance tourism spending and increase spend time in NZ.

    so go elephants. just build them a nice exhibit. and yes people will bitch and complain about the cost of going to a zoo, any zoo. zoos represent great value for money for families; families with the right values. there will always be families out there who would think paying $10 to give their child the priceless memory of seeing an elephant or any exotic animal is too much. but lets just sterotype and say they are the same families who would think nothing of spending $10 on McDonalds for that same child.

    and as I once read in a book. child spending too much time standing in front of the elephant exhibit at the zoo. bored parent hassles kid "come on, you have seen elephants millions of times in books before".
    "but theyre never this big in books" says the kid!
     
  6. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

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    i cant be bothered editing my last post but just to clarify i do agree with spending on health and education initiatives....but after working for the NSW dept of education and seeing how much money they waste on ideas they start, stop, start and stop then drop i just prefer it when public money is spent in more accountable ways.
    people may say spending tens of millions of dollars on elephants for taronga zoo was a waste of tax-payers money. but id guess that most government departments would waste that amount of money per year on paper.
     
  7. zooman

    zooman Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Hi Glyn l am curious and l think you would be aware. But ;) Do you have the same views here given the evidence that IVF produces male offspring most of the time in elephants.
     
  8. Laloba

    Laloba Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance

    Hi all.
    This is fantastic news! I would ask all of you to go read the comments on that link posted above to the herald article - you will get ANGRY at the ignorance of alot of them. Maybe some of you who are informed can post with some actual facts, about how times have changed and the welfare standards for elephants have changed. They need to be in a herd, in a large exhibit, not just in a pair. People infuriate me sometimes. I can't comment as I work at the zoo and have to remain anonymous! (Policy etc.)
     
  9. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Hell, if we can raise the spectacle of a breeding group of elephants at Auckland over the ignorant press converts writing in, we will get the numbers out. Besides, I just love to go back to my All Blacks country and an functioning elephant group and habitat at Auckland may help matters ... even more so! :D

    I am in a similar sit when my hometown zoo is concerned and I know how it may feel (to you Laloba). It is, it is ... sometimes infuriating how people naturally assume, argue ideas that have no concept of and be plain ignorant on basic animal husbandry and animal management and animal welfare. It is equally infuriating how people define captivity one way and define the wild state as totally pristine (equally ignorant and all the more dangerous as complacent and gearing towards non-intervention in any human-induced biodiversity crisis and habitat degradation processes in the wild (hence precluding the survival of any endangered species).

    Can you tell us what newspaper(s) we have to target here (lol)!!! :cool:
     
  10. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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  11. jay

    jay Well-Known Member 20+ year member

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    I didn;t think the comments were that bad, about half thought that the money could be spent on other things (fair enough that they have different priorities for money, though I have to agree with Glyns comments re money wasted by govts. so this amount of money is not 'that' big).
    There didn't seem to be any rabid anti zoo comments though, unless they were taken off.
     
  12. Jarkari

    Jarkari Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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  13. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    the subtitle says three female and four male elephants -- but the article itself says three females and two males. I suspect it would be the latter
     
  14. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    I still haven't been able to watch the Campbell Live video yet, but from the following article from today it seems that the elephant herd plans are not concrete yet.
    Elephants not packing their trunks | Stuff.co.nz
     
  15. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Laloba,

    Do we read this correctly to assume that a potential new elephant exhibit at Auckland Zoo will be on land adjacent to and not now inside the zoo complex?

    On another note: what about any Bornean orang transfers abroad? It seems a shame to me that the group is not connected to either the SSP and/or EEP programmes? It is an endangered species and the need to spread the Auckland genes around other zoos would also enable Auckland Zoo to restart the breeding programme. Open up space pse ... and even in the EEP we could do with several additions ...!!!? :)
     
  16. Jalur_Tiger_Cub

    Jalur_Tiger_Cub Well-Known Member

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    Im so glad! I cant wait for it all to get underway!

    Now Burma wont have to leave when poor Kashin dies! Auckland Zoo without elephants just wounldn't be right!

    It will be great for auckland! I cant wait to see what happens!
     
  17. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

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    to be honest the problem with AI producing too many male calves isnt an issue to me.
    AI is certainly an important tool for breeding elephants and inter-zoo genetic exchange; it also offers exciting applications for in-situ conservation for this species. it needs to be refined but despite the trend towards mainly male births AI still needs exploring for both ex and in-situ applications. on the other hand, natural breeding is balancing out the ratio and is just as exciting as it reflects a move towards creating natural herd structures.

    certainly the trend amongst Western Zoos recently who are upgrading exhibits is to build seperate compounds for a bull, or in some cases, multiple bulls. reaffirming the commitment many zoos have to breeding these animals naturally. its a stark contrast to the past practises of keeping all female herds, with resulting fewer offspring. and ironically, as AI becomes more accurate i think we can say in regions like the US and Europe there is certainly a renewed focus on both natural matings and construction of bull facilites. in Australia all 3 major zoos who have elephants and have upgraded their exhibits have built or are building bull facilities, in the case of Sydney a multiple bull enclosure.
    across the US most of the new or proposed developments have bull facilities attached, to cater for not only bulls currently kept on site but for future bull calves bred at these zoos. think Honolulu Zoo for example.
    Auckland Zoo's proposal certainly is in line with this 'best practise'.
    in doing this (building bull facilities) zoos are positioning themselves to hold a growing population of maturing bull calves in the future; we may also see as is happening in the US the emergence of bachelor holding facilities for bull elephants.
    as Auckland Zoo has indicated it could hold up to ten elephants; whether that means two mature bulls i guess we will see. what we can be sure of is this; Auckland Zoo is certainly looking to move quickly on this development meaning new animals will need to be sourced either from Asia or zoo populations abroad, but probably not Australia because of the relative lack of stock. in doing so Auckland will be in a position to 'handpick' a herd and manage accordingly, but within the broader arrangement of the ASMP.
    when it comes to elephants i think Australasian zoos could be said to be looking long-term, it certianly is one of the more exciting ASMP with potential for at least Australia and Perth Zoo to further expand their role in terms of holding capacity. and i would not be suprised if in the long-term future, when WPZ's African Elephants pass on that this facility became a specialist bull holding facility!
    so to answer the question does AI worry me, no it doesnt. elephant bulls may be expensive and hard to manage but of course so are surplus male gorillas etc. i think globally the management strategy for pachyderms will closely resemble, over time, the form of the gorilla program where you have coordinated, planned breedings, zoos with both breeding groups and bachelors and bachelor holding facilities.
     
  18. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

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    and just one other thing.
    a zoo without an elephant is still a good zoo! but given the rather dire lack of exotic species diversity in both Australian and new zealand zoos i think elephants become a bit more of an essential element of the 'menagerie mix'.
     
  19. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Hi glyn,

    I agree with all that you wrote, just using the US SSP as an example is perhaps less illustrative of the points you are trying to make. Surely, the SSP for Asian elephants is working towards all the goals you mentioned, yet it has only been that policy in earnest in the last year or so. SSP Captive-breeding has been confined to a few US zoos to date, yet the switch over to more modern facilities and natural herd structures is only recently happening (and the SSP certainly has a high demand for breeding age cows not currently being served by the programme itself as an ageing senescent population). Okapikpr and all will confirm this to you too.

    Your arguement would have been better served if you had mentioned the European EEP for Asian elephants as an example. The EEP Asian elephant has been operating in this fashion for a good 5-10 years now and natural breeding since 1991 has increased to a level that is now making the EEP population almost self-sustaining long-term.

    It will certainly be interesting to see the SSP programme develop in the next few years and certainly where the crop of young reproductive age cows will be coming from (certainly the number of breeding cows in the SSP population makes the population not sustainable at present. The National Elephant Center of Ringling Bros could play a major part here (along with the long term reproductive centers of Columbus, Houston, Portland, Springfield, Saint Louis, Syracuse). The US zoo part of the SSP currently has 39 institutions and along with the above-mentioned potential functioning herds at Cincinnati, Forth Worth, Tulsa and AI locations Seattle and Washington NZP. Count in the 4 Canadian SSP means including the breeding herds at Calgary and Rockton.

    If you consider the private elephant sanctuary (9 institutions), Bucky Steele, Perris-Have Trunk Will Travel and Ringling Bros Polk City site are participating in the breeding programmes. All others are non-starters or have reproductive age cows, but no connection to the SSP.

    Again, I would look to okapikpr and the latter is almost an item for the US elephant thread he started ......
     
  20. Coquinguy

    Coquinguy Well-Known Member

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    thanks Kifaru Bwana. as a long-term member of this site I have cited the EEP for Asian Elephants (certainly because it has been the model program for Asian Elephants for some time now) many a time before on this site, particularly throughout the initial stages of the Australian Asian Elephant saga.
    at the moment however, I am looking with great interest to the US with the ensuing challenges and flurry of building activity. certainly here in Australasia we can look to both the EEP and SSP models for this species. it is exciting to see across all 3 regions however, the alignment of population management strategies with better exhibits.
    all the best