There is no one size fits all for the animals, sometimes a cage is better as it gives much more vertical space as tje animals increase their available habitat by a huge amount in being able to use the sides of the cage and roof. In some cases I would rather see bars than mock rock if the air flow is not sufficient as the solid walls radiate a huge amount of heat.
The main problem with the Taronga gorilla exhibit is that the gorillas can`t get away from the public because it is so narrow without visual barriers (bushes for example). As a visitor, you can overlook the hole enclosure is one second, and the gorillas have no possibility to hide. And they hate it as result. Forcing them to stay outside would be very stressful for them and who knows, it might even affect the breeding sucess. My ideal for primates is either an enclosure like Melbourne, or an island with very, VERY shallow water on all sides (like Apenheul) or a cage-like enclosure with glass windows for viewing on one side and covered by something like a net (example: bonobo enlcousre in Cologne). Bars don`t need to look like "prison bars" anymore today. Moch rock on all sides with glass windows for public viewing is the worst possibliliy in my opinion because the animals (regardless what you keep in there) can`t see what happens in their surrounding. If you choose a large cage-like structure or an island with a water moat or concrete walls (like Melbourne) should depend on the availible space; moats (both dry and water-filled) take away huge amounts of space and in a small city zoo, cage-like enclosures are usually the best solution.
The Taronga Zoo gorilla enclosure is definitely stressful for the gorillas in terms of the close proximity that visitors have to the apes. The animals attempt to stay back against the fake-rock background, or avoid coming down to the waters edge of the exhibit. An improved enclosure would be fantastic, but I wonder if it will ever happen? Also, which species would be best suited to replace the gorillas? The Howletts and Port Lymphe ape enclosures have been attacked by zoo visitors who wish to see something more eye-catching, but the breeding success that those Aspinall zoos have had leads other zoo critics to praise such exhibits. The overhead ceiling appears to be a factor in determining the ease of the great apes, which of course Taronga lacks.
i beg to differ, i think there are aspects of the exhibit which need redoing and more vegitation would be good but the group has had breeding success including a recent baby born roughly 3 weeks ago and ive been to the exhibit on numberous occasions and seen little ones chasing the ducks right on the waters edge and the older ones sitting away from the back walls. its not a perfect exibit i know but its not as bad as every oneis saying it is.
It is all nice, well and interesting ofcourse this discussion on gorillas at Taronga, but can we get back to the elephant thingy? Any news on elephant activity at Melbourne with Bong Su and Gung at Taronga? Was not the association of Putra Mas and Permai unhelpful (is she the one that cannot conceive due to the danger of dropping out on the bull on her back)?
ok can i just jump back to the gorillas for a second, in defence of taronga.....as someone who actually lives near Taronga, and Patrick this isnt aimed at you, and as someone who has spent a long time over many years viewing these animals-would it be ok for me to say the exhibit isnt so bad. for starters, Taronga has naturally bred now several offspring, in a little over a decade. melbourne, in the breeding stakes, has taken nearly two decades to acheive only slightly more births. furthermore, taronga zoo has 'finished off' the Dutch born babies and re-exported well socialised, healthy adolescents to zoos back in Europe and Japan. to say the exhibit must stress the animals is a little far fetched in my opinion. it might not be as luxurious as Melbourne's exhibit, but i think that stems partly from the immersion feeling of the visitors themselves, including us forum members.. Taronga's exhibit is a little younger than Melbournes and still has some growing to do on both the animals and people's side of the moat to maximise the rainforest feeling. there are many factors which contribute to an animals stress levels. on some visits I have seen the gorillas playing in the moat in front of packed viewing areas, at other times half a dozen visitors may be watching and all the animals are up the back or in the dens. i dont think the proximity to the visitors is an issue all the time. as the troops movements are, by and large, regulated by Kibabu, who is to say that A PARTICULAR VISITOR, quite far away, hasnt put him off? we would never know....or they might be too cold, hot, or hungry? why they hang around their dens so much is a mystery but i dont think it is because of any overriding inadequacies in design terms. there are several stands of screening plants in the exhibit, as well as the cave at the western end of the exhibit, and in parts the exhibit is quite deep. i am not sure why the animals like being in the dens so much.....its certainly the closest people can get to the animals and as far as im aware the glass is two way-so to assume the animals are in there because they are stressed by the public stares makes this assumption seem irrational, even by gorilla standards. what i think makes the animals hang around the dens so much is the association they have with this area to both food and absolute security, as well as it being a constant climate (moreorless). i think the animals could be conditioned to spend more time outside with an even greater ammount of scatter feeds and, yes, possibly more vegetation. on the whole though i do not feel it is a bad exhibit. the mock rock wall is a compromise against the steeply sloping topography of the taronga site. Patrick quite rightly pointed out that it serves aestetic purposes, but I would prefer it to an obnoxious brick wall, steel fence or concrete wall. now, back to elephants
Thanks a lot for all this information, surely very interesting. Unfortunately the book is not available at amazon.com
I've got a copy (obviously)... Those quotes are taken from Auckland Zoo's Wikipedia page, which I wrote 98% off... I may be able to dig up a few more deatils for your website...
Sorry all for the double post... @ DanKoehl I've uploaded photo's of all the elephants that have called Auckland Zoo home, (except this mysterious Kassala)... Jamuna: http://www.zoobeat.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2388 Rajah (male): http://www.zoobeat.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2391 Kassala - no photo: I've found out some more info, she is the third elephant to arrive at the zoo in 1952 from Singapore (doesn't specify if the zoo or the wild, I assume zoo if it existed then), and was at the zoo in 1954 when Jamuna crushed the keeper (Kassala was described as young elephant at this time)... When Malini arrived in 1961 she was described as "the long awaited companion" for Jamuna who lived till 1964... From this I can only assume Kassala was moved to another zoo in the late 1950's, if she died the zoo has done a good job of hushing up a young elephant's death... Malini: http://www.zoobeat.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2393 I don't know how I missed this little lady, unfortunately the info in the photo is all I know... Not sure what became of her either... Ma Schwe: http://www.zoobeat.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2394 Kashin: http://www.zoobeat.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1790 Burma: http://www.zoobeat.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1789 Enjoy..!
all the elephants that have called Auckland Zoo home Thanks, I ll take a look. Is any of those pics copyrighted as to your knowledge, can I use them on my website?
There seems to be more than one version on her records, according to the Australian studbook keeper, Ma Schwe arrived 30 Oct 1968.
According to Australasian Region Asian Elephant Studbook Kassala (I think her original name would be Kosala, which may indicate origin from Sri Lanka...) were relocated to "Private" in 30 Dec 1957.
hi Dan, NZJeremy hasn't been on the forum for a fair while now (not sure what happened to him), but I checked my own copy of "A Tiger By The Tail" and the copyright holders for the photos as provided in the book's credits are as follows: Jamuna: Jamuna » Auckland Zoo Gallery copyright holder listed as Auckland Zoo Rajah (male): Rajah » Auckland Zoo Gallery copyright holder listed as Auckland Museum (C23,261) [I don't know what the numbers mean, possibly a catalogue number] Malini: Malini » Auckland Zoo Gallery copyright holder listed as Wilson & Horton Ltd Ma Schwe: Ma Schwe » Auckland Zoo Gallery copyright holder listed as Auckland Star [a newspaper] Kashin: Asian Elephant - Kashin » Auckland Zoo Gallery NZJeremy's own photo Burma: Asian Elephant - Burma » Auckland Zoo Gallery NZJeremy's own photo in terms of NZ copyright laws the following applies:
that is correct. The text in "A Tiger By The Tail" that NZJeremy was using (and which he must have accidently mis-read) actually says:
hey Steve, this was the only one I could find with a google search. Its a second-hand one, and it says listed September 2009 but it appears to still be available (NZ$25) A Tiger By the Tail By Derek Wood [F1] - $25.00 : Second hand books, used books and cheap books from Oldbooknewhome emailing Auckland Zoo would probably be productive as well, as I would assume they must sell it in their gift-shop
Thanks Chlidonias! Speaking about books, this sounds interesting: Mr Bullen's elephants : a tribute to Bullen's circus elephants and all the Mr Bullens who were their trainers : recollections of members of the Bullen family, former employees and friends / compiled and written by Bob Cunningham in collaboration with Brenton Bullen. Mr Bullen's elephants : a tribute to Bullen's circus elephants and all the Mr Bullens who were their... | National Library of Australia
A very interesting book - self published by Bob and Bullen. It is probably out of print by now [the run sold very quickly] but I may be able to get a copy from Bob if you are interested.
