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European elephants

Discussion in 'Europe - General' started by UntBwe, 21 Aug 2007.

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  1. UntBwe

    UntBwe Well-Known Member

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    I have a lot of statistics of European elephants in zoos. I will start this thread because I understand some of you are interested in elephants :)

    I saw a question of which species is the most common in (European) zoos. I can tell this is the Asian elephant. But I wil show you later some numbers.

    Interesting might be which zoo is breeding and which don't. I have more info later. For now (feel free to add your info of other facilities):

    EM = Elephas maximus
    LA = Loxodonta africana

    Breeding zoos in The Netherlands:
    Amsterdam Zoo (Artis):1.3 EM
    Amersfoort Zoo: 1.4 EM
    Emmen Zoo: 5.10 EM
    Rotterdam Zoo: 2.4 EM
    Safari Beekse Bergen: 1.5 LA
    Ouwehands Zoo: 1.2 LA

    A non-breeding facility is Burgers Zoo with 0.4 EM

    Irma and Douanita of Rotterdam Zoo are pregnant. Babies expected: end of this year (Irma), and Spring 2008 (Douanita). This shall be the last offspring in Rotterdam for bull Alexander (now Antwerp Zoo). The new bull Timber is to young for mating yet: he is nine years old.

    Tooth, the new bull in Rhenen, has already mated Aja. So, offspring can be expected?

    Maybe there are some elephants pregnant in Emmen but since the keepers are not taking blood or urine samples, they can't tell who is.

    Amersfoort has not officially a pregnant elephant but there are rumours about Jula. They take blood/urine samples.

    Other info:

    17 elephants were born in Emmen Zoo, 15 of them survived. The first one was born in 1992 (Mingalar Oo), the last one on august 8 this year (Swe Zin). Both have the same mother: Htoo Kin Aye.

    Irma of Rotterdam gave birth to the first elephant ever born in a Dutch zoo: Bernhardine in 1984. Bernhardine is now living in Dublin.

    Btw: The first recorded birth of an elephant in The Netherlands was Gina on November 11, 1939 in an exhibition building in Amsterdam. Mother Birma was traveling with a circus. Birma and Gina were brought to Amsterdam Zoo, where Gina stayed until her death in 1967. Some people think she is the first elephant born in a Dutch zoo, but you now know that isn't.
     
  2. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Is it official that Dounita is pregnant. I read earlier on a Dutch zoo forum that management is not quite whether she is. What is your source?
     
  3. UntBwe

    UntBwe Well-Known Member

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    An elephantkeeper.
     
  4. UntBwe

    UntBwe Well-Known Member

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    Some statistics:

    State of data: November 1, 2006.

    European zoos including Israel*

    There are 137 collections with elephants.
    These 137 has 522 elephants.
    303 are EM, and 219 are LA.

    76 collections are keeping only EM (= 295 animals)
    51 collections are keeping only LA (=206 animals)
    7 collection are keeping mixed groups (= 21 animals, 8 EM, 13 LA)

    In 2006 there were 8 births of LA, and 9 of EM
    In 2006 6 LA died, and 16 EM
    In 2006 5 elephants (EM) were imported from Thailand to Cologne Zoo.

    *Zoos in Israel joines the European Association of Zoos and Aquariums (EAZA), and Ramat Gan is studbook holder of the African elephants in Europe and Israel (Rotterdam Zoo is studbook holder for EM)

    The largest collections with more then 10 elephants are:
    Emmen (The Netherlands): 15 (6.9) EM *
    Cabarceno (Spain): 13 (3.10) LA **
    Cologne (Germany): 13 (3.10) EM *
    Howletts (UK): 12 (3.9) LA **
    Terra Natura (Spain): 11 (1.10) EM *

    * = Today's state
    ** = State of Nov. 2006

    The smallest collections keeps only one elephant.
     
  5. Toddy

    Toddy Well-Known Member

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    Copenhagen Zoo is ranked third in Asian elephant births outside of Asia. This is also where Irma's 48 year old dad is still the breeding male. Chieng Mai as he is know, is one of the most produktive elephant bulls outside of Asia. The elephant bull Chang (Chester's previous bull and Britains most productive) also came from Copenhagen Zoo, where his mum Ida still lives.
     
  6. UntBwe

    UntBwe Well-Known Member

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    Other productive bulls are/were:
    Naing Thein (Prague): 14 descendants (2 of them died)
    Siam, 1945-1997 (Paris): 14 descendants (10 of them died)
    Chang (Dompierre): 11 descendants (4 of them died)
    Hussein (Hamburg): 11 desendants (5 of them died)
    Maxi (Zürich): 11 descendants (5 of them died)
    Chieng Mai (Copenhagen): 11 descendants (7 of them died)
    Mohti, 1949-1973 (Hamburg): 11 descendants (8 of them died)
    Calvin (Hamburg): 10 descendants (2 of them died)
    Alexander (Antwerp): 9 descendants (2 of them died)
    Ramon, 1970-1998 (Rotterdam): 9 descendants (4 of them died)
    Shinto (La Palmyre): 8 descendants (4 of them died)
     
  7. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Luka at Benidorm
    I think that with Luka being at Benidorm the behavorial issues he experienced at Belgrade Zoo are a thing of the past. It really comes down to housing and training methods.

    Anyone here know what is happening with him breeding to the 3 young females Khaing Soe Soe, La Grande and Momo at Benidorm?


    Antwerpen elephants
    Antwerpen Zoo have refurbished a stall for the breeding bull Alex. It is not a big development as he is only there short term and will leave I think in October for Sevilla (to live out the remainder of his life - the reason I think is that he has enough offspring in the EEP population for now).

    Long term the entire breeding group at Antwerpen are to be relocated to Planckendael. At Planckendael a separate bull elephant facility will be in the siting plans. I yet have to see any building plans for what set up (number of elephants etcetera ...) they will have.

    Perhaps Unt Bwe can fill us in on that!
     
  8. Hadley

    Hadley Well-Known Member

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    Antwerp, have the most unfortunate exhibit of an elephant skull in the centre of the house, in full view of the elephants. I sometime wonder what they must make of such a display.
     
  9. UntBwe

    UntBwe Well-Known Member

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    I don't saw any plans or number for Planckendael but I heard that only 6 weeks ago they started with some measurements at the zoo. From insiders I heard that 2010 might be a big questionmark...

    The skeleton in the temple of antwerp is of Jacqueline, the first elephant in the zoo (1852-1880), but you're right. What will an elephant think when he see such thing?

    But it is interesting to see those historical skeletons. Like the first elephant of Amsterdam Zoo, Jack who lived from 1838 til 1949. He is standing in the zoological museum.
     
  10. Yoman35

    Yoman35 Well-Known Member

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    With Siam in vincennes zoo, there is Kavery (female), Kuala (female died), Nina, girl of kavery eand Thisiam, son of Siam. I believe that it left for Poland

    I had made a research on the éléphanst of Vincennes here what I found Here
     
  11. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    When I used to see 'Luka' at the Port Lympnme Zoo, he was always(to me) rather 'scary' probably because I knew of his background. I rember that he was usually kept in a paddock away from the public. If on his own he would stand in one spot and nod his head up and down in a stereotyped fashion- probably a leftover from his sad past.

    Also, if he was in the paddock with the females, there were notices warning the public that he would throw stones at them...
     
  12. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    I suspect this unruly behaviour was down to his early life treatment from members of the public. I just cannot imagine an elephant throwing stones unprovoked. I suppose something jotted in his memory about our fellow man that just did not sit well ... at all.

    Anyhow, now he is in a big yard and has access to some females that actually have the realistic chance to breed in the foreseeable future. Let's hope he does his job (ele bulls are only interested in 2 things ... guess what???).
     
  13. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    That's good. I'm glad for him. Its nice to think they are in a better climate too. I've no doubt he will breed okay- he fathered a number of calves at Port Lympne(plus the one at Belfast) its just that they mostly D.N.S.
     
  14. UntBwe

    UntBwe Well-Known Member

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    Bull Sammy of Amersfoort Zoo will be moved to Rotterdam Zoo next Monday (October 15), and Alexander of Antwerp will come the next day to Amersfoort. He will stay there for six months, and hopely makes the older females pregnant. After that he will sent to Sevilla, and Sammy shall return to Amersfoort.
     
  15. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    Would you have any pics of those bulls?
     
  16. Sitara

    Sitara Well-Known Member

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    May I complete an correct a litte bit?;):p

    Hussein, since 1975 Hamburg, (*1987 India) has 12 offsprings (5 of them died):

    - Ratna ♀ (* 23.02.1992, HusseinxThura), now: Muenster/Germany
    - Tharun ♂(* 25.12.1995, HusseinxThura), Pont Scorff/France, died
    - stillbirth ♂( 09.01.1996, HusseinxBenga)
    - Corny ♀(* 04.06.1996, HusseinxYahoda), now: Muenster/Germany
    - Salvana / Indra ♀(* 01.07.1996, HusseinxSaida), at the moment for mating purpose: Leipzig /Germany
    - stillbirth ♂( 17.10.1996, HusseinxShandra)
    - Sandry ♀(27.11.1999, HusseinxClaudia from Circus Knie!), Switzerland
    - stillbirth ♂(09.11.2001, HusseinxThura)
    - Kandy ♀(14.05.2003, HusseinxYashoda), Hagenbeck/Hamburg
    - stillbirth ♂(22.06.2003, HusseinxLai Sinh)
    - Thai ♂(26.11.2004, HusseinxThura), Hagenbeck/Hamburg
    - Shila ♀(11.04.2007, HusseinxLai Sinh), Hagenbeck/Hamburg

    It is interesting, that all male offsprings, exept the last one, Thai, are dead (most of them stillbirth!) and all females are alive!

    Mohti and Calvin are not in Hamburg, but in Hannover (this is another zoo and another breeding-place!)

    Besides, if you are interested in German zoo-elephants, there is a web-site for that with good information and a lot of pictures, but unfortunately not in english...:rolleyes: Zooelefant.de - Elefanten in deutschen Zoos
     
    Last edited: 22 Nov 2007
  17. kiang

    kiang Well-Known Member

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    A video on youtube caught my eye posted yesterday (10th) of an African elephant being born at the Sosto zoo, Nyiregyhazi, Hungary.
    They had recently received animals from Ramat gan in Israel and Warsaw in Poland.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 6 Jul 2017
  18. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    looks like a nice barn, would love to know more about this zoo!
     
  19. Sitara

    Sitara Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this link! :) This is the birth of Laci, (*24.09.2007), the first L.A. born in Hungary. His mother is "Yoki" (*25.02.1990/Ramat Gan Israel), but unfortunately his father "Yossi" (11.08.1974/Ramat Gan) is his grandfather, too! :rolleyes: The small group living there at Sosto-Zoo, joins the younger son of “Yokiâ€Â, "Izik", (*06.05.2004), also inbred (father: "Yossi"!), and the bull “Nino†(*30.09.1999/Ramat Gan).
     
  20. Sitara

    Sitara Well-Known Member

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    In the German Zoo Wuppertal the 4th elephant calf in the last 2,5 years was born on 13.01.2008. It is a bull-calf, named “Tamoâ€Â.
    The young herd arrived in 1995 at Wuppertal Zoo and is meanwhile one of the most successful breeding-groups of L.A. in European Zoos.

    “Tusker†(m) *1992/South-Africa
    “Sabie†(f) *1992/South-Africa
    “Pundaâ€Â(f) *1992/South-Africa
    “Numbi†(f) *1992/South-Africa
    “Sweni†(f) *1992/South-Africa

    “Bongi†(f) *03.06.2005/Zoo Wuppertal – Tusker x Punda
    „Kibo“ (m) 09.10.2005/ Zoo Wuppertal – Tusker x Numbi
    „Tika“ (f) 13.07.2007/ Zoo Wuppertal – Tusker x Sabie
    „Tamo“ (m) 13.01.2008/ Zoo Wuppertal – Tusker x Sweni
     
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