Join our zoo community

Federal Legislation potentially extending Lacey Act (injurius wildlife)

Discussion in 'United States' started by Great Argus, 5 Feb 2022.

  1. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2018
    Posts:
    5,442
    Location:
    California
    Bengal Tiger likes this.
  2. Bengal Tiger

    Bengal Tiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21 Aug 2021
    Posts:
    1,643
    Location:
    Scatman's World
    Hopefully doesn’t get put into place, the effects could be bad.
     
  3. groundskeeper24

    groundskeeper24 Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    16 Jul 2008
    Posts:
    628
    Location:
    Kentucky, USA
    They try this from time to time because it's the only way they can pass this kind of thing. I've contacted my senators and congressman. I've spent too much time and money on my animals to have them taken from me.
     
  4. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2018
    Posts:
    5,442
    Location:
    California
    I feel like it would be poorly enforced due to the sheer number of species involved, but it's still highly concerning.
     
    Bengal Tiger likes this.
  5. Neil chace

    Neil chace Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Aug 2018
    Posts:
    4,488
    Location:
    Earth
    This definitely seems like the biggest national attack on the zoo industry in recent years, if not ever. Hopefully this amendment fails in the senate so that it does not go into effect. I know I will try to contact my senators Monday to see if they'll vote against it.
     
    Birdsage likes this.
  6. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2018
    Posts:
    5,442
    Location:
    California
    Coelacanth18 likes this.
  7. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2016
    Posts:
    6,553
    Location:
    .
    It looks like it could be far reaching if enacted :(
     
  8. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2018
    Posts:
    5,442
    Location:
    California
    Very far reaching - basically anything could be at risk of being listed as injurious at any time and is then immediately banned for 3 years. Apparently too any species listed as injurious then cannot be moved across state lines, regardless of origin, whether captive-born or wild-born.

    I'm severely annoyed as there are a few good animal related things in the bill as well - investigations into illegal wildlife trafficking, addition protections for sharks, marine mammals, and coral reefs for example.

    An interesting one that I do not believe made the final cut was an amendment to claim any US born Giant panda as belonging to the US.
     
    TinoPup likes this.
  9. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2016
    Posts:
    6,553
    Location:
    .
    It seems to be that there would be a white list of *approved* animals, so anything not on that list, is automatically injurious. A lot of safe animals would likely get left out when done that way. I get what they think they're doing, but it's yet another case of people who don't know anything/listen to ARA trying to step in. Transporting over state lines includes things like going to the vet, not just sales. Not a big deal if you're in one of the 3 main exotic states, but if you're somewhere like delaware? It basically bans any ownership because there's no dealers and only a few exotic vets here.

    LMAO about the pandas. Not surprised that got tossed, any lawyer would tell you that you don't want to go back on an agreement made with China's government.
     
    PossumRoach likes this.
  10. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2018
    Posts:
    5,442
    Location:
    California
    Yeah, it's extremely problematic for things like that. The "white list" idea is horrible, just in fish alone there's a couple thousand species at least routinely imported, who's vetting all those? I've seen several comments from aquarium people regarding the stupidity of the overarching legislation, marine species will not ever become invasive in states like AZ, MT, or WV for example. There is great concern it would be used to essentially shut down multiple sections of the animal hobby, though on the other hand it would create a massive black market. Such action wouldn't just hurt our industry, we import from multiple countries where the breeding/collection of such species is significant to their income.
     
  11. Neil chace

    Neil chace Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Aug 2018
    Posts:
    4,488
    Location:
    Earth
    White Lists for exotic pet related laws have already shown to be stupid. My home state of MA has a White List for what pets are allowed to be owned, which led to the ability to own bison and Ostrich without a permit but something like mousebirds or turacos as completely banned.

    Really what concerns me the most about this is the state lines rule. That'd really screw over zoos, as what species are there that the AZA has a sustainable population of in state? Maybe some of the larger states have some species that'd be fine, but there'd be a lot of common zoo species this change would be a death sentence to.

    Plus, if having to prove a species can't be injurious to go on the white list, it's basically impossible. Any animal that lives in an area whose climate replicates that of part of the US could be argued as potentially injurious, which pretty quickly eliminates 90% of species.
     
    Birdsage likes this.
  12. Echobeast

    Echobeast Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Apr 2017
    Posts:
    950
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    I hope this bill does a swift death. I understand the basis of wanting to curb invasive species and diseases but banning species has not stopped the problem and adding new bans is only going to hurt multiple industries. As well as it is completely unenforceable in terms of determining what species are injurious because one can argue that feral dogs and cats are potentially worse than any other invasive species but we are not going to be banning those any time.
     
  13. UngulateNerd92

    UngulateNerd92 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    4 Feb 2015
    Posts:
    5,573
    Location:
    Tucson, Pima County, Arizona
    Thank you for sharing this. I am going to contact my senators and tell them to vote against this bill as well.
     
  14. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2016
    Posts:
    6,553
    Location:
    .
    Zoos with the proper USDA licenses are usually exempt from these sorts of things, as long as they have all of the proper paperwork. That's why they can own and transport endangered species, for example.
     
  15. Neil chace

    Neil chace Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Aug 2018
    Posts:
    4,488
    Location:
    Earth
    Yes, I am aware. I was just saying this as another example of lists of what animals are allowed, not what animals are banned, being problematic. That's the Massachusetts Law for private exotic pet ownership, which is full of gaps for species that are completely reasonable (super Dwarf retics, turacos, mousebirds) being banned, while unreasonable pets (bison, Ostrich) are allowed without permits.
     
    Birdsage likes this.
  16. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2016
    Posts:
    6,553
    Location:
    .
    I was replying to your second paragraph, about it being a death sentence to a lot of zoo species. It wouldn't, because zoos would still be keeping those species.

    Bison and ostrich are both species that are established farm animals.
     
  17. Pantheraman

    Pantheraman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 May 2021
    Posts:
    389
    Location:
    Shelby, Ohio
    Alright, would this be a threat to AZA zoos or not? Regardless, I hope it doesn't pass.
     
  18. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2018
    Posts:
    5,442
    Location:
    California
    Hypothetically not too much. Aquarium fish could be problematic though depending on what happens, as most smaller species (and a lot of big ones) are imported rather than bred yet.
     
    TinoPup likes this.
  19. Neil chace

    Neil chace Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    27 Aug 2018
    Posts:
    4,488
    Location:
    Earth
    Seeing that Fruit Bats and Meerkats are currently considered injurious wildlife and the programs are still thriving, AZA Zoos should not be the biggest concern here. It just means more paperwork and permits for transporting animals/different protocols for escapes, etc. However, if it becomes something that permits cannot be received to transport over state lines/it becomes difficult to transport over state lines, then it would be a much bigger deal, akin to how AZA Deer programs are struggling due to the CWD bans. Regardless, I don't want to risk it and see this amendment pass through the senate!
     
  20. Aardwolf

    Aardwolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10 Sep 2021
    Posts:
    841
    Location:
    United States
    That’s what the registrar gets paid for…

    AZA does have employees dedicated to government affairs, as do many of the larger zoos. They are aware of this and similar bills
     
    UngulateNerd92 likes this.