Join our zoo community

Howletts Wild Animal Park Howletts Wild Animal Park News 2017

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by ShonenJake13, 4 Feb 2017.

  1. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    I agree, it's not much better than a zoo to begin with, and since they will be living in semi-wild conditions they will likely struggle with the move.

    But that being said it does reduce the number of excess males in Europe, if only by a small amount.
     
  2. zoogiraffe

    zoogiraffe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12 Sep 2007
    Posts:
    6,338
    Location:
    Middlewich,Cheshire U.K
    To me it is not a great idea. But what do I know, its only a couple of Gorillas, if they die they have room for more their.
     
    ShonenJake13 likes this.
  3. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    Yeah, I know both zoos have been struggling with their blackbacks of late so it'll be good to make a new bachelor group and give them more capacity to breed!
     
  4. zoogiraffe

    zoogiraffe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12 Sep 2007
    Posts:
    6,338
    Location:
    Middlewich,Cheshire U.K
    Perhaps they need to work with other zoos, instead of sending animals on a death sentence back to the wild.
     
  5. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    I'm with you on that, the whole Aspinall anti-zoo ethic is one I really don't agree with.

    Does anyone know if the Aspinall zoos still aren't part of the gorilla EEP?
     
  6. taun

    taun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    13 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    3,928
    Location:
    England
    Is the last group the family group sent back?
     
  7. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    Yes, Djala's, they sent nine or ten I believe and are now down to five or so.
     
  8. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    16 May 2010
    Posts:
    14,824
    Location:
    Wilds of Northumberland
    Yep; it has got to be the hairiest walk to a zoo I have ever attempted :p and I would certainly think twice about doing it again!
     
    Crowthorne and ShonenJake13 like this.
  9. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11 Jan 2015
    Posts:
    2,937
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    The Villa? Is that the Round House?
     
  10. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    Nope, the Round House is called the Pavilion. The Villa is the caged/indoor accomodation for the other group of bachelors (you can go and see it just past the colobus and binturong)
     
    FunkyGibbon likes this.
  11. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2006
    Posts:
    20,774
    Location:
    england
    Very dangerous country road. I thought they operated a minibus pick-up from the station.
     
  12. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2006
    Posts:
    20,774
    Location:
    england
    I think only Djala and his blackback son(forget name) are left of the main group. A surviving daughter was removed and sent to another reserve.

    The rest of the group died under very mysterious circumstances that were never properly explained. First blamed on interactions with a rival 'rogue' male, it perhaps seems more likely they were either poisoned or killed by other human intervention, for reasons we will never know.
     
  13. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11 Jan 2015
    Posts:
    2,937
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Worth pointing out, as I already have done to Crowthorne, that the bike ride from Canterbury station is actually really delightful as it takes in some gorgeous countryside before Bekesbourne. I think part of it is along the Pilgrim's Way.

    When I was living in Cambridge I was able to get my bike through London because King's Cross and St. Pancras are so close together. If I do visit this summer it might be a little more tricky!

    EDIT: In fact Euston (the 'Birmingham' station) is also really close to St. Pancras so we're still looking good!
     
    Last edited: 19 Jun 2017
  14. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2006
    Posts:
    20,774
    Location:
    england
    Surplus male gorillas are so prevalent in European zoos non-one wants them( or they can't build enclosures quick enough to take the surplus) Reducing production is the only answer to the problem really. Aspinall's have so many males the only answer is to send a few more out to Africa I think, though why they've chosen adult males this time rather than the upcoming younger ones I don't know.
     
  15. Giant Panda

    Giant Panda Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    24 Jan 2016
    Posts:
    798
    Location:
    UK
    From the IUCN/SSC Guidelines for Reintroductions: “Re-introductions should not be carried out merely because captive stock exists, nor solely as a means of disposing of surplus stock.”

    I'm with @zoogiraffe here. They shouldn't be used as a blinkered hypocrite’s vanity project, either.
     
  16. zoogiraffe

    zoogiraffe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12 Sep 2007
    Posts:
    6,338
    Location:
    Middlewich,Cheshire U.K
    So brilliantly put
     
  17. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2006
    Posts:
    20,774
    Location:
    england
    I think they should reduce or stop breeding at Howletts( and a lot of other zoos too) to overcome this problem. The elder Aspinall's dream or idea was to breed them in his estate and then 'return them to the wild' but reintroducing captive stock is fraught with problems as they have experienced already with the Djala group, the only time they have done it so far with gorillas from the UK. It seems these new males will not really be reintroduced to the wild either, more a semi-captive situation.
     
    Giant Panda likes this.
  18. gentle lemur

    gentle lemur Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2007
    Posts:
    4,981
    Location:
    South Devon
    I think it's the lack of transparency that worries me most.
    All the publicity seems to be 'spun', assuming that reintroduction is a good thing without qualification or explanation, which obviously arouses suspicions like those raised by Giant Panda. Moving 'spare' males to Africa may be justifiable for in situ educational purposes or for trialling reintroduction techniques. But the transfer of Djala's group looks like a rash experiment that failed catastrophically: I realise that this may not be true, but without a clear statement of the facts, an analysis of the problems and an acceptance of responsibility by the person or persons who made the decisions, it looks like flim-flam.
     
    Pertinax likes this.
  19. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2006
    Posts:
    20,774
    Location:
    england
    When I was there last, the talk given at Palace of the Apes(Djala group's old home in fact) mentioned a group having been reintroduced to the wild, but no mention of the failed outcome. I guess the listeners all went away with the false impression it was a success. While on their facebook they still refer frequently to Djala as 'living free' as if the whole experiment was a big success which is(IMO) very misleading.

    In one way Djala is worse off than previously when he lived in UK- he had a large group formerly, whereas now he lives just with one son for company. I think maybe they could give him/them a couple of new females- but from their other African projects rather than from the UK groups.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jun 2017
    FunkyGibbon likes this.
  20. taun

    taun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    13 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    3,928
    Location:
    England
    I do not agree with the attempts, it seemed very hap hazard but someone has to be the first and losses are to be expected.

    Ideally they should publish a paper on the experiment so lessons can be learned and inform feature attempts.

    I think you may have to introduce captive females to a rescued male maybe this will help with leading the group safety around dangers. Either way a more measured approach is needed and not rush these things.
     
    Crowthorne and MagpieGoose like this.