Hello Everyone, I am new to this forum, so I apologize if I am doing this wrong. I was at the zoo on Saturday and while visiting seen that the Hyena's were what looked like playing/mating, but I read in a different thread that the Hyena's at the Toronto Zoo are not mating? The behaviour I observed was the male trying to get close to the female, as she peeked out of each side of the rock formation. At one point he picked a stick and took it towards her. So I was just curious as to what behaviour was being displayed playing, mating or other?
It's possible that could be some kind of courtship between male and female. It's also possible that what people, myself included, saw between the pair was actually courtship rather than the female fighting off the male.
Your post is fine. Welcome. Always happy to have a new member. Since Im the person who confused you allow me to clear it up. The zoo is actively trying to breed the hyenas. You weren't wrong in what you saw. However the American Zoo Association (AZA) guides the programs that regulate the breeding of all species in North America through Species Survival Programs (SSPs). In the Spotted Hyena SSP it was recommended, because thats all the SSP can do is recommend, that Toronto not breed the hyenas. Moja (M) and Pinduli (F) are considered too closely related to produce genetically desirable cubs. The SSP's goal is to provide for a genetically healthy North American population for the next 100 years. Because its just a recommendation zoos can ignore the SSP but in doing that the SSP might not allow the offsprings produced from such breedings to be transferred to another zoo. The SSP finds breeding matches and recommends the best pairings and bachelor settings for animals. If they tell Toronto to keep something they will find it very hard to get another zoo to take the animal. Its how we got stuck with Lindy and Jerroh, or neutered male lions. We bred regular tawny lion Rowdy with white lioness Nokonda against the recommendations of the Lion SSP and beyond good common sense as no one wants half white lions. The AZA refused to help rehome them at maturity. They couldnt find a home here in Canada for similar reasons. So here they will stay for life. If we choose to breed a hyena cub which is not genetically desirable theres a very good chance it will stay forever because its parents are too closely related. We have that problem with our Lion tailed macaques which all but two are inbreed. No one wants animals they cant breed. Hope that helps and welcome.
I am still getting familiar with the animal names Lindy and Jerroh are two of the white lions we have currently? And thanks for the information regarding the AZA and SSP recommendations, it all makes sense. I have learned more about the zoo in one conversation here then I have as a zoo member in two years.
Lindy and Jerroh are the older, larger brown lions. They're half white lion and half regular African lion. Looking at them you wouldn't know that they're half white lions. And welcome to the Zoochat forums.
They rotate Lindy and Jerroh with the White Lion at the lion exhibit. They were on exhibit yesterday. Usually on weekends the White Lions are on display and Lindy and Jerroh go on exhibit certain days during the rest of the week.
Sorry my bad for not writing down specifically what Lindy and Jerroh were. They were the second litter for normal African Lion Rowdy and white lioness Nokonda, born in 2000. Their parents first litter was a single male cub named Simba who was born in 1999. Nokonda rejected both litters and the boys were all partially hand reared. Simba went to Parc Safari in Quebec relatively quickly. Lindy and Jerroh were reintroduced to their parents and lived with them until Lindy became too agressive with Rowdy. Both have been neutered because they werent wanted for breeding. The zoo couldnt find homes for them because zoos either want African Lions without the gene mutation which causes white lions or they want to ignore the AZA's recommendation on keeping and breeding white lions and tigers. The boys fell in the crack. Because their mother was what and produced from a brother sister pairing in Philidephia the boys come from inbred lines. They couldnt be used in the African Lion SSP breeding. And they dont possess the genes necessary to definitely produce cubs that possess the white gene (a tawny lion carrying the recessive gene for the lack of pigment can procude white cubs) no one wanted them for the white lion breeding program. The zoo did the wrong thing creating them but they couldnt get their hands on a white lion just the lioness. So instead of just displaying Nokonda with Rowdy they allowed breeding of unwanted and unneeded cubs. You can tell Lindy and Jerroh apart easily. Lindy has a bit of a scruffy mane while Jerrohs never developed. Its to do with their being sterilized. Male lions need the testostrone or something to grow the mane. So Jerroh just looks like a massive lioness which people often mistake him for. Now out current white lions Fintan (M), Makali (F) and Lemon (F), who are also on display in the lion exhibit don't face the breeding problem that Lindy and Jerroh face. Fintan and Makali can breed, Lemon has been spayed due to health issues. Their cubs will all possess the recesssive genes. Some will be tawny and some will be white but their colour doesnt make them less desirable. Most zoos listen to the AZA and wont house white lions or tigers but there are a number that do and will love to get their hands on our cubs. I cant give you any tips oh how to tell the difference between the white lionesses. I had heard Lemon was darker but that was when they were cubs. It easily could have changed as they grew.
In regards to the cubs that mekali and Fintan could have, I don't believe that they would have tawny cubs at all, they both have the recessive gene which would mean that their Cubs could ony possess the recessive gene making it impossible for them to produce any tawny coloured cubs. As for lemon being spayed, this is the first I've heard of this and it's very unfortunate and sad for the zoo and the lion population!
I'm not sure about the make up of a white lion litter but it could be possible all of their cubs will be white. White or tawny it doesnt matter to me. Getting to see lion cubs again after 14 years or more will be a treat. I dont know exactly what was the health concern that caused Lemon to be spayed but if she has a genetic condition she would pass on to cubs better that she not breed.
I've studied genes before and I'm fairly sure that because both of them are white they would only have white cubs! Either way, id be extremely excited to see the cubs! The bowmanville zoo currently has 4 which were born last Friday, I may visit just to see them.
I found out the reason why lemon had to be spayed while I was at the zoo today, she has bone disease and obviously for conservation reasons this would not be a preferable gene to pass on! Also, the keeper said that we could expect to see some lions cubs as early as this fall!
Sucks that Lemon had to be spayed, but it's completely understandable. Keeper said we can expect to see lion cubs as early as fall? Does that mean there's a pregnancy? Or are they hoping for a pregnancy?
Yeah it really does suck but definitely understandable! And she said they're hoping for a pregnancy as she is just on the cusp of being mature so it's possible she could get pregnant but we have to wait and see, definitely in the next year or two though!
Fintan's age might also play a role in the arrival of cubs. Male lions usually dont take over a pride until they are 4 or 5 so he might not be mature enough either. The zoo would really be hoping for a winter birth though so Canadas first white lion cubs would be ready for display in the spring. Cubs finish their shots and go on display typically at 3 months old. They would ideally want a birth in February or March with conception around November or December. But sometimes you dont get to choose. Fall cubs will be ready for display in the winter but it will be too cold. They will be a little big.
Welcome to the amazing chat forum on earth Zootographer We have a question about Moja and Pinduli .We been to the zoo on Thursday and seen Moja and Pinduli and we noticed that Pinduli is much larger than Moja and was wondering is Pinduli older than Moja or female spotted hyenas are larger than males? Every lion feeding the keepers said that they are hopping for the cubs this fall * fingers crossed* there will be cubs this fall.But only Makali can be the mother,we wanted to see Lemon with the cubs but we are sure she will make a perfect aunt for Makali's cubs )
Female hyenas are bigger. In hyenea society even the most submissive, lowest ranking female out ranks the biggest most dominant male. Probably because the females are the leaders of the clans they need to be bigger than the males. Hyenas are a fascinating creature. Pinduli is 8, she was born Jan 19, 2006. Moja is 15, he was born Jun 5, 1999. The zoo wants both hyena and lion cubs. They have been trying to get hyena cubs for years now. Its not worked yet for Pinduli and Moja but given that they are so closely related the SSP said dont breed them it doesnt seem wise. The lion cubs will depend on the sexual maturity of both Fintan and Makali and if they had Makali on birth control prior to these attempts, the wearing off speed of the birth control. I hope they arent successful in breeding until the winter. Call me selfish but I likely wont get to visit until spring and I want to see little cubs. Cubs who are ready for display in the winter would be a waste for the zoo because they wont be big enough or strong enough for a hard Canadian winter. They would be kept behind scenes until spring arrived and the zoo will loose out on that cute factor rolly polly 3 month old cubs possess.
