Join our zoo community

Is is a chimpanzee or bonobo?

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Deer Forest, 3 Feb 2016.

  1. gentle lemur

    gentle lemur Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2007
    Posts:
    4,981
    Location:
    South Devon
    That is not impossible.
    Actually I think there are two problems here. The first is obvious - those clothes conceal so much of the body and limbs. The second problem is that the second photo is taken from some distance above the animal's head and this angle foreshortens the parts of the limbs that are visible, particularly if it is leaning slightly forward: this effect may be exaggerated further as it has fairly dense hair which seems to be held erect because it is either cold or excited in some way.
    Applying Occam's Razor, I think the simplest hypothesis is that it is a bonobo - but I cannot be certain.

    Alan
     
  2. Slothie

    Slothie Member

    Joined:
    2 Apr 2014
    Posts:
    23
    Location:
    Stoke-on-Trent
    I can't not see a bonobo, I dunno how anyone can make out chimp in the first picture especially.
     
  3. Slothie

    Slothie Member

    Joined:
    2 Apr 2014
    Posts:
    23
    Location:
    Stoke-on-Trent
    There is a lot of illegal trafficking that goes on so it's very likely there are bonobos everywhere who aren't officially recorded.
     
  4. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    13 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    23,434
    Location:
    New Zealand
    no, I did not.

    nope.


    The page I linked to had reference to reports of chimp X bonobo hybrids with genuine scientific articles to back them up (e.g. Vervaecke, H., Van Elsacker, L. (1992). Hybrids between common chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) and pygmy chimpanzees (Pan paniscus) in captivity. Mammalia, 56 (4), 667-669).

    Other claims on the site are not my concern :p
     
  5. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    16 May 2010
    Posts:
    14,826
    Location:
    Wilds of Northumberland
    The usual suspects in the chatroom have discussed this animal, and it has been noted that in the 1990's Twycross Zoo had a hand-reared common chimpanzee - a hybrid of nominate and schweinfurthii - which looked very much like this individual when young.
     
  6. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    13 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    23,434
    Location:
    New Zealand
    ...and while you guys were discussing that, I was reading about humans being chimp X pig hybrids :p

    For anyone who wants to read, it is an eight page discussion, starting here - Human origins: Are we hybrids? - and basically (so to speak) he is saying that a male pig (specifically Sus scrofa) mated with a female chimpanzee and then the resulting offspring bred back into the chimp population. For his argument he decides that several million years ago, chimps were found much further north and S. scrofa much further south (and that also both species actually existed several million years ago....). To combat the objection that his comparisons rely heavily on the characteristics of domestic pigs, he says at one point that perhaps there was a wild hairless pig which was domesticated by humans later, and that they aren't actually derived from wild S. scrofa at all (he doesn't seem phased by his own contradictions). This isn't all however. He also goes on to argue (page seven) that gorillas are a more recent hybrid between chimp X giant forest hog but cleverly skirts around the obvious contradiction by saying that characteristics shown by a chimp X domestic pig wouldn't necessarily be shown by a chimp X different kind of pig! And then he posits that the common chimp (i.e. Pan troglodytes) is really the result of the "original" chimp (i.e. the bonobo Pan paniscus) hybridising with the chimp X giant forest hog hybrid (i.e. the gorilla). So in fact, common chimps, gorillas, and humans are all hybrids and the only pure species is the bonobo.

    Lots of other "interesting" stuff in there too, like a human X chicken hybrid. Yes, you read that correctly.
    Many many instances of deformed babies (animal and human) being uncritically passed off as hybrids between two randomly-picked species.

    There are also a lot of genuine hybrids discussed but man there's a lot of idiocy on there.
     
  7. dcpandafan

    dcpandafan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    5 Sep 2013
    Posts:
    331
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1503/15037917/2424400-1065694833-86361.jpg
     
  8. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2006
    Posts:
    20,779
    Location:
    england
    There sure is.... I've often wondered why I walk about pecking at things on the ground, it must be my chicken genes....:rolleyes:
     
  9. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    10 Dec 2012
    Posts:
    17,732
    Location:
    fijnaart, the netherlands
    With a little shame I have to admit have been pee-ing against trees...... my dog-genes ??
     
  10. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    10 Dec 2012
    Posts:
    17,732
    Location:
    fijnaart, the netherlands
  11. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    10 Dec 2012
    Posts:
    17,732
    Location:
    fijnaart, the netherlands