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Twycross Zoo ITV Central News

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Jane Doe, 15 Jan 2014.

  1. Jane Doe

    Jane Doe Well-Known Member

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  2. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    the way I see it, that is exactly what the reason is. To create funds you need a hook. For all I know the new CEO may have something against the zoo's founders but I really doubt that. She was simply stating how it was "back in the day" and that being the reason for needing funds to build a proper enclosure to combine the chimps in. (I do think the "ripping baby chimps away from their mothers" was a bit too much, but I wouldn't read too much into it).

    all over the world. Not just apes of course (elephants, bears, etc) but I think with apes the mental problems would be much worse due to their greater intelligence, if that makes sense. Auckland Zoo (in NZ) recently had their last tea-party chimp die, and she had been alone a long time due to not being able to be mixed with other chimps.
     
  3. SmallestGiraffe

    SmallestGiraffe Well-Known Member

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    What i got from the article was highlighting how experiences early in life for the animals has affected them in later life and therefore trying to encourage people to care a little bit more and support the zoo to provide care for the chimps in particular? Definitely it is a hook to get help for funds to support the new house for the chimps, which i would like to see them achieve.

    It is definitely shown by the example of the chimps in the PG tips adverts, how time has moved on and peoples attitudes have changed, which as far as i can tell is a good thing?

    I do have Molly's Zoo but i have to confess to not having had time to read it yet so i actually do not know an awful lot about how things were ran etc back then.
     
  4. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Interesting, this may have been in the Interview, but there seems no mention of an intended new enclosure in the newspaper article- which makes it seem more like critisism for the sake of it. The hook certainly makes sense- I wonder if there will be an official launch for funds to tie in with this now.

    I saw the Auckland Zoo chimps some years ago when there were two groups of three(?) each. The older group were survivors of a group of
    exLondon 'teaparty' chimps exported to NZ back in the day.
     
  5. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    if you can view it, the video is linked in my post #17. The CEO is saying raising chimps for entertainment creates problems, then says about how the history at Twycross has been to keep them in twos and threes and they have worked very hard over the last two or three years to get them into larger groups of seven and eight, and they would like to raise 3 million pounds to build "a new ape house" so they can get all twenty-odd together [she says "twenty-odd" not "twenty-two"]. The last thing she says could be construed as an "attack" on former practices ("I absolutely wouldn't use chimps in entertainment any more. To rip the babies away from their mother.....etc") but I honestly think she is simply saying that past practices are not what would be done today, nothing more and nothing less.


    London certainly did a roaring trade with tea-party chimps. I think probably all the ones used in Australasia were supplied by London.
     
  6. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    @Chlidonias, agreed … I would say CEO Redrobe's assessment here was pretty measured and I - for once - really look forward to what they have in mind for the chimpanzee groups at TZ.
     
  7. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Chimps.

    I've had a look in an old UK Chimp Studbook I have (Molly Badham was the regional studbook keeper) - its dated 1987, though few(one to Colchester?) if any Chimps have left Twycross since then to my knowledge. Until then it shows only a couple of Chimps as having ever left Twycross, either on loan or transferred to other Zoos.

    As far as where they came from, about half a dozen were donated/presented -from 'C.Grace'(ex Dudley?) Frank Farrar-Colchester + 4 others from 3 different private individuals. 'Coco' the original chocolate female was imported from Senegal, 'Ricky' was an illegal import (not by Twycross obviously) confiscated and sent to Twycross, two males (Benjie & Bimbo ) came from ZSL, f. Samantha from a research institute in Nairobi, f Mollie from Colchester Zoo while female 'Melody' was a later 'rescue' from Barry Island Zoo. Also, but not listed, is 'Eve' who was Bristol's last chimp.
    Some of the above mentioned are now dead of course.

    All the rest, as Jane Doe indicated, have been born at Twycross from 1974 onwards- the first parents being Oscar x Coco( the chocolate chimp).
    Up to 1986 a total of twelve were born at Twycross. Handraising is listed for two, mother rearing for one, the rest have no rearing detail. As I mentioned above, I rarely saw any chimps being mother-raised at Twycross over many visits so suspect many/most were removed for handraising. Molly did have a reputation in those days in zoo circles for preferring to handraise baby apes- sometimes unnecessarily perhaps. The last two listed births are males 'Pippin' and 'Flyn' I imagine only very few(if any) babies have been born there since then.
     
  8. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I think it was a blanket comment about how Apes were treated in the past generally, rather than a direct reference to Twycross, though far more Apes have been handraised there over the years than in most other Zoos.

    That is all in the past though. I look forward to whatever they can achieve now. My only criticism is that it could/should already have been done many years ago.
     
  9. Bele

    Bele Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I have a lot of respect for Molly Badham and was just stating facts that I had seen in a studbook , which I have since checked .The 2009 European Chimp Studbook lists nearly 30 chimps acquired by Twycross between 1956 ( Vicky ) up to Noddy and Choppers in 1973 . All but 2 of these - Spike born Bristol and Jack born Chester - appear to have been wild-born . Sources shown include Tyseley , Farrar and Delves , all dealers , Coco the 'chocolate' chimp is listed as coming from an unnamed dealer , others came from unnamed circuses and quite a few from private sources ( these could well have been public donations ) . Chimps leaving went to Wellingborough , Chester , Paignton , Coventry , Colwyn Bay , Whipsnade , Heathfield , and 2 to Senegal .

    The stud-book listed 6 wild-caught chimps held by Twycross in 2009 - females Coco , Choppers , Noddy , Tojo and Samantha and male Herbie - not certain how many of these are still alive . I am sure someone can help with this .

    I am trying to remember when attitudes changed on the acquisition by zoos of baby wild-caught apes and how this came about . Did it come from realisation by the zoo community or from wildlife conservation bodies ? Can anybody help on this ?
     
  10. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    More Chimps seem to have left Twycross than I had presumed. (its not very easy to determine from the layout of the old regional S/B.) I've never heard of a 'Spike' born at Bristol- 'Eve' certainly was in 1971 and later did go to Twycross so maybe 'Spike' is a misnomer/wrong sex listing.

    'Choppers and 'Noddy' both came from the same private lady, 'Togo' from a different couple. 'Samantha' is the one that came from the Nairobi Research Institute. 'Coco' came from somewhere/one called 'De Souza/military' in Senegal. I can find no reference to 'Herbie' so presumably he arrived after 1987. Don't hear his name mentioned nowadays so maybe he died?

    Three of the last wildcaught Gorillas to arrive in the UK were 'Diana', 'Eva' and 'Biddy' who came together from a dealer- Diana went to Bristol while the other two stayed at Twycross. From memory this was circa 1975 and I think attitudes were changing by then. For a start Apes were being born in zoos more frequently to partly fill further demand. I think actual legislation probably came from the countries the animals came from though I can't remember exactly when.
     
  11. Bele

    Bele Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    There are far more historic chimps listed in the European studbook than in the UK regional studbooks . Spike , studbook number 11225 , born Bristol 09.05.1969 , Buttons x Elizabeth , arrived Twycross 08.05.1972 . Died 26.03.1975 .

    I can only assume that all the records of Twycross chimps came from their own records .
     
  12. dogman

    dogman Active Member

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    It was hard enough back in the days of the green mile style enclosure's when your view was obstructed by fencing etc, then when the new batch of aquariums were built for the apes and they could all be seen all of the time in their bare enclosures with no where to hide, you could get a great view of them the whole time especially when they were locked out!

    What's all this talk of a new facility? I bet they go for another one of these modern exhibits where the animals have a natural landscape eh! so they can disappear into the undergrowth and hide from the visitors when they like, and integrating them with other chimps to create natural groups for behavioral reasons, oh my, whatever next??:D

    Oh why can't we stay in the zoo's of the 60's and 70's and not move forward now we know better;)
     
  13. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Very much so. Spike is not mentioned anywhere in the UK S/B's though 'Eve' is. They had the same parents, so were brother and sister. Bristol were chummy with Twycross in those days and sent several young Apes up to Twycross , either ones they presumably didn't want(Chimps) or to try and and get them handraised successfully (Orangutans) as Twycross, despite the shortcomings of the process longterm, were actually very successful with this as they had a lot of experience.

    The European studbook is bound to be more thorough.
     
  14. Jane Doe

    Jane Doe Well-Known Member

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    18 January 2014
    TV Chimps and Twycross 50 years on


    Over the past 3 years Twycross Zoo has focussed on improving the welfare of the animals at the zoo. One major advance was the initiative to restructure the chimpanzee groupings. Chimpanzees like to live in large family groups rather than the small groups of 2-4 traditionally used at Twycross Zoo. In the wild troop sizes can be very large of up to 80 individuals, seasonally breaking off into smaller groups of 8 - 15 chimps to feed and forage. We welcomed several experienced primate specialists to our team over the last few years as we worked behind the scenes to teach the chimps to be 'chimp-like' again and mix with larger groups.
    The challenges the team have faced during this process soon became a talking point and we are delighted that an article published by BBC News Online on January 9th 2013 'PG Tips chimps: The last of the tea-advertising apes' has generated a lot of media attention. The original article can be found here: BBC News - PG Tips chimps: The last of the tea-advertising apes
    Molly Badham, co-founder of Twycross Zoo, ceased using chimpanzees for the PG Tips adverts in the early 1980's. On the subject Sharon Redrobe, Chief Executive, states:
    "There is no doubt that the animals would have enjoyed themselves at the time; as babies they would have been extremely curious. And there's no doubt that the chimpanzees at Twycross Zoo were loved and well cared for. I have a great deal of respect for the leading work Molly Badham undertook in breeding and caring for primates and it is in that light that I am pleased to be taking Twycross Zoo forward into the future developing ever more modern ways to improve the lives of our animals'.
    In her time, Molly Badham was a world leader in primate care and highly regarded for her work with chimpanzees. Molly achieved many 'world firsts' during her leadership, from breeding animals successfully through to being a founder member of the National Federation of Zoological Gardens of Great Britain and Ireland. Molly even led to a step change in how animals were kept in zoos across the nation by giving monkeys access to grass when many zoos still kept them in sterile cages. And for all of that Twycross Zoo owes her a great debt.
    Sharon continues "As with any area of science, our understanding of animal behaviour and welfare is constantly evolving. In the past people didn't fully appreciate the long term impact of using primates in this manner. Simply put, people didn't know any better and didn't understand the harm they were doing to the animals by raising them around humans; those chimps then find it very difficult to live with their own kind when they eventually become too dangerous to be with humans anymore. Chimpanzees should never be kept as pets or entertainment in this day and age. That is why it's unacceptable that in 2014 Hollywood are still using young chimpanzees in movies.

    "Nowadays, the focus of our concern has to be the chimp's whole lifetime, not just those first few years. So to allow our chimpanzees to better express their natural behaviours, we have been moving them into bigger groups. Moving and settling 24 chimps into new homes is no easy task and a very long process which includes a lot of work by our excellent keepers, veterinary staff and maintenance teams. In just three years Twycross Zoo has successfully reduced the number of chimp groups from 11 small groups to just 5 larger ones, but there's still a long way to go."
    Twycross Zoo still cares for 23 chimpanzees. The oldest is Coco at 48 years, and the youngest Tuli, aged 6 years, who is growing up as a very confident and sociable young chimpanzee living well in a group.
    Sharon finishes 'In a world where scientists agree that apes like chimpanzees will be extinct in the wild within 20 years, it's even more important that Twycross Zoo continuously improves the care of these precious animals. Our next focus is to raise the funds to build a large chimpanzee Eden-type area where all the chimpanzees can live under one roof and live a life even more akin to their wild cousins.'
    In the 2013 BIAZA Awards Twycross Zoo received a commendation in 'Significant Advances in Husbandry and Welfare' category for the integration of Chimpanzees into Larger Social Groups in recognition of this amazing work.

    What about this for a change either someone got a rape over the knuckles or a telling off ?and one other thing in the early days Twycross Zoo got all of their information from London Zoo again read the book molly's zoo
     
  15. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    Much as I admire Miss Badham's work, this rather undignified moaning about the fact that times have changed, and things are done differently now, is wholly unfair to those who seek to take forward a zoo which was, quite clearly, in a sorry state by the end of Miss Badham's reign.

    And to keep referring to Chimps With Everything and Molly's Zoo as if they were statements of absolute fact.....
     
  16. SHAVINGTONZOO

    SHAVINGTONZOO Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    That is a fair comment - the grassed runs were progress when they were built. Unfortunately perhaps progress then stopped? I remember speaking to a Twycross keeper in the mid/late 1980s who wanted to add further enrichment to the enclosures. Wasn't allowed to - Miss B didn't want it.

    One problem with zoo history in the UK is that it's poorly recorded, and rarely unbiased. Places have to be either terrible ... or perfect. The reality is that even the best places, and their proprieters, have weaknesses. And just maybe even the poor places have redeeming features ........
     
  17. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Where does this come from? Do you have a link please?

    I don't see the change here!
     
  18. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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  19. Bele

    Bele Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    'Molly's Zoo' was written with the assistance of journalist Maureen Lawless , whose credits are given as articles on animals in 'News of the World' , 'Daily Mail' and 'Mail on Sunday' .

    I agree with other comments about many of the books written by proprietors about the story of their zoos being perhaps not entirely accurate . I do not believe that 'Menagerie Manor' should be taken as a history of the early days of Jersey Zoo . Recent books on the history of Cotswold and Colchester , and the biography of Ken Smith , researched and written by outsiders , are , I would like to think , more accurate .
     
  20. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    There isn't a change in the general theme. Its just a more detailed resume as one might expect on the Zoos own website and with more emphasis on MB's achievements so to speak. I would query her being recognised as a world leader with Chimpanzees though- 'handling chimpanzees' perhaps might be more accurate.;)

    Although Twycross were one of the first Zoos in the UK to exhibit Apes and monkeys on grass with glass viewing windows, the grass was actually cut short like a bowling green and no other stimulation was added so it wasn't very natural and I always felt it was for visual effect rather than anything else. As a result, Twycross became the place where you could take good photos.

    I think the main thing all this sudden reference by them to their past & T.V. chimps is doing is highlighting just how far behind the times they are-most other zoos ceased keeping Chimpanzees under that sort of regime decades ago. The good aspect is the renewed stated intention to build a large new Chimpanzee complex- at some stage, preferably sooner rather than later.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jan 2014