Thank you for all this interesting information, Childonias. THis really an amazing example of how wrong information can be placed on an internet source and then spread out. Yet, also notice how zoochat members were correct in doubting the unusual claims which was used by some persons, such as wrong photos or unclear videos. I agree with you all the way, i think the tiguar never existed, a male siberian tiger would have killed a female jaguar, most likely.
Hey everyone! Been some time... Carlos, thanks for your research, I wanted to go to the zoo myself but I live far away. Now the question in my mind is, if Mickey never really existed, then why did the watchman confirm that they had a tiguar when I called them on the phone? Is it possible that he thought I said jaguar? But no, I specifically said a hybrid between tiger and jaguar. Either he truly believed there was a tiguar in their collection, or he was the one who started the rumor to begin with (to attract visitors?), or something really wrong is happening in that zoo. I wouldn´t be surprised if the animal had existed for real but had been sold to a private party or something and now they're denying everything. I figure a tiguar would be worth quite a lot of money. I don´t know, maybe I'm just being a conspirationist. But if tigers can mate and produce hybrids with lions, they sure can do it with jaguars. And the zoo does have both. Rumors have to stem from somewhere after all...
that doesn't really follow. Lions and tigers are extremely closely related so its not surprising that they can produce hybrids easily. Tigers and jaguars are not nearly as close. They are in the same genus so may well be able to hybridise but there are no verified accounts of them having done so. The only one was the rumoured Altiplano Zoo's one!!
According to what I've read, lions and jaguars are more closely related to each other than they are to tigers. I remember seeing the newest versions of the felid family tree (supossedly drawn based on genetic evidence) that group lions, leopards and jaguars together, and tigers as more distant relatives, closer to snow leopards. I know the taxonomy of cats is controversial but I don´t think anyone considers lions and tigers as each other's closest relatives anymore
I've read that research too - it is the primary reason why nowadays snow leopards are classed as belonging to the genus Panthera, as the only way to keep them in Uncia would be to place tigers in there too as Uncia tigris and class Panthera as comprising all descendants of the last common ancestor of the jaguar and lion. As the idea of splitting tigers into a seperate genus from other pantherines is an uncomfortable one for traditionalists, it is generally preferred to classify Panthera as all descendants of the last common ancestor of the tiger and lion, and therefore accept the snow leopard falls into this clade.
Surely if anyone was really trying to produce this cross, it would make sense to use a male Jaguar on a Sumatran Tigress, reducing the size difference as much as possible; what a waste of time though!
Nice to hear from you again, Adam. My colegas from Universidad autonoma de Tlaxcala did tell me that it was actually the ex - governor of tlaxcala who actually was caught by the Profepa ( mexico´s government enviromental agency) about 2 years ago trying to smuggle the zoo animals. he was forced to return all the animals, so it was said. I saw no empty enclousures at the altiplano zoo. Ah,The plague of mexico and latin america is still the dispicable corrupt politicians among us. So again how did the tiguar story begin? Did the animal ever exist or was it invented ( by the ex - gov, himself ? ) What is certain is that at this moment, there is no tiguar at the zoologico del altiplano and no one i spoke to in Tlaxcala acknowledged it¨s existence.
New information about tiguars Here are some of my new discoveries about tiguars that I have found from the Internet and Wikipedia. This may help with uncovering the mystery of the tiguar. According to this link, there are claims about tiguars in the wild: http://messybeast.com/genetics/hyb-jagxtiger.htm Also, I have done a search on when tiguars were first mentioned on Wikipedia. Tiguars were first mentioned when the page "Panthera hybrid" on 1 September 2005. No information on the tiguar except for its name (tiguar or jagger) was given. This edit was by JYolkowski. Further information about possible resemblence to a dogla, but more powerfully built was given on 14 September 2005 by a user with the IP address 20.133.0.14. According to IP Address: 20.133.0.14 , this user edited from London, UK. The location on Google Earth is Methodist Central Hall Westminster, Westminster, London SW1H 9NH, UK. This user has made several wikipedia edits. The information about resemblance to a dogla was later deleted. Until 2008 not much more was added. On 28 April 2008 a user called Raikou888ex wrote a long summary about a tiger/jaguar hybrid (tiguar) living in the jungle in the Amazon and gave lots of "facts". He/she was likely unfamiliar with wikipedia because he/she put his/her edit in the wrong place, deleted it, and then put it in the right place. However, the summary by Raikou888ex has no citations and is very likely made-up because he/she writes that tiguars can live for over 50 years. In reality, tigers live for 20-26 years (in captivity so in the wild it's less) and jaguars live for 12-15 years. A hybrid would not live for such a long time. Also, Raikou888ex talks about tiguars having cubs, but most hybrids are infertile. Raikou888ex's summary was deleted the same day. On 17 June 2009 a user with IP address 201.103.135.91 wrote first wrote about Mickey in the wiki article: "At the Apetatitlan Zoo (Tlaxcala, México) the crossbreeding of male siberian tiger and a female jaguar from the southern Chiapas jungle produced a male Tiguar named Mickey. The specimen is in exhibition at a 400 m2 habitat and as of June 2009, is two years old and weighs 180 kg." According to IP Address: 201.103.135.91 the IP address is from Mexico City. The user made no other wikipedia edits. Using the latitude/longitude given in the website and google earth, the location where the edit was made is Bolívar 21, Centro, Cuauhtémoc, 06000 Ciudad de México, D.F., Mexico. On 3 October 2009 user Seduisant changed the edit with the zoo being Altiplano Zoo in the city of Apetatitlan (near Tlaxcala, México). The same day he changed the city to San Pablo Apetatlan and converted Mickey's weight to lbs. Seduisant has made several wikipedia edits. However, there was still no citation. The section was further edited by subsequent users to become the version seen today. There was some vandalism (not about tiguars) on the section though. On 11 April 2014 I (infometric21) added the Hawaiin tiguar claim and its link to the wikipedia page. The tiguar section on wikipedia is on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthe..._tiger_hybrids The revision history for the entire article is on: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...action=history I will continue doing more research on the tiguar mystery and will keep you all updated. Please reply if you have any additional information. Thank you.
This is the search for the origin of the Altiplano zoo tiguar story. Mickey may be a hoax, but I am trying to discover who started it.
