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Killer whale sanctuary ?

Discussion in 'United States' started by vogelcommando, 8 May 2016.

  1. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member

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  2. overread

    overread Well-Known Member

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    Ambitious plan, but at the same time flawed if Seaworld refuse to allow them to take the whales ? At least it sounded like they were not in support of the idea; then again that might just be their angle they maintain so that they don't get pressured into paying for any of the facilities nor transporting. Put up a denial front whilst knowing the team will do it anyway and then when its all done and ready begrudgingly agree
     
  3. azcheetah2

    azcheetah2 Well-Known Member

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    The article says they're going to "prove Sea World wrong" about whales being able to be put in sea pens...at what cost, though? The lives of the whales? Because that's what they're doing. They don't know that sea pens will work, but they're willing to sacrifice the whales in order to prove Sea World wrong. In their Tilikum timeline it says he is sick and has a bacterial infection they're treating. If they put him in a sea pen it very likely would kill him. There's crap in the ocean that a captive whale's immune system doesn't have the ability to fight off. So how many whales and dolphins are they willing to lose before they realize their sanctuary won't work? Besides, they're wasting their money. Sea World will not just turn over their whales.
     
  4. Loxodonta Cobra

    Loxodonta Cobra Well-Known Member

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    Not only that, but when the whales do die in this "sanctuary", all of the blame will go straight back to Seaworld and generate even more negativity when Seaworld was for once the best choice for the whales to remain.
     
  5. azcheetah2

    azcheetah2 Well-Known Member

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    Of course Sea World will take the heat for it. I agree. Sea World is the best place for them. As much as I wish they weren't in captivity, they are and to put them into these sea pens would be irresponsible and would likely result in the deaths of the older whales especially. It might work for the younger ones, but I'm not willing to risk it. I think it's dumb for these people to build a sanctuary, knowing Sea World won't give them up. They are probably hoping to bully SW into givi them up, like they've bullied them into stopping the big shows and the breeding program. And they'll be counting on getting the public behind them by pointing out that there's a sanctuary ready to go for them.
     
  6. overread

    overread Well-Known Member

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    What happened to that whale that starred in Free Willy - wasn't he released into a seapen?

    * would look it up but is literally just heading out the door*
     
  7. zoomaniac

    zoomaniac Well-Known Member

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    There are 2 very important points here. The one with the ownership is already mentioned. The second one is: Who will finance this if SeaWorld really give its okay?!! Construction and Maintenance for such a Sea pen/"sanctuary" for all the captive orcas in the US will cost a huge amount of money. I don't believe that federal and/or state authorities would do that. Neither animal rights activists (they need their money to enforce the authorities to prohibit animals in zoos). And as Loxodonta Cobra wrote, Sea World can only loose when in goes into this.

    Second: People who have failed a successful release of Keiko should be involved again in this program. Really???!!!
     
  8. Andrew_NZP

    Andrew_NZP Well-Known Member

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  9. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    there are articles about this going back to 2014 and probably earlier. It seems, as usual with these groups, to be all talk. The articles are all headlined with statements that "sanctuaries" are "under construction", "being built", etc, but then the text within the article is just the scienticians talking and squabbling.
     
  10. jibster

    jibster Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. This article is misleading at best. "Started building"? I've done a basic search of the web to glean information directly from the groups supposedly building this sea pen, and the article's first sentence appears to be a massive overstatement. How can building start when no location has even been identified? The entire article, in fact, seems to be both biased and inaccurate.

    I have been rather outspoken on this site as supporting Sea World's decision to end it orca breeding program (especially when viewed as a business decision by a for-profit corporation), but this whole sea pen idea seems really ridiculous on so many levels. One part of me admires the dedication of the people who support this, but it just seems so divorced from reality to me - financially unfeasible, logistically troublesome (if even feasible), and almost certainly not in service of the welfare of these orcas.
     
  11. TheMightyOrca

    TheMightyOrca Well-Known Member

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    All of the articles going "A SANCTUARY FOR SEAWORLD'S WHALES?!" are getting way ahead of themselves. If this project gets off the ground, it's still gonna be years before the sanctuary is built. And even if it does get built, I seeeeeriously doubt SeaWorld is gonna send over any animals. I can certainly picture smaller aquariums and entertainment facilities wanting to retire their dolphins, but not SeaWorld.

    I am optimistic for this project, the people behind it seem to know what they're doing, like, they're not being naive and idealistic. They acknowledge the challenges behind this project, and they do acknowledge that many captive cetas have health problems that won't be fixed by a sea pen, so I'm sure they realize that some animals won't be able to go.
     
  12. TheMightyOrca

    TheMightyOrca Well-Known Member

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    They're trying to build the sanctuary before they seek out animals. They've gotten a few large donations and I imagine they're gonna look for more. Obviously they have hopes and goals, but they're not running up to SeaWorld asking them to send their animals to a sanctuary that doesn't exist yet. (it doesn't sound like they've even spoken to SW) Unlike a lot of past sanctuary projects, these guys seem to know what they're doing. Their team consists of not only activists, but biologists, vets, there's even a zoo exhibit designer. If you look on their website, specifically the blog section, they discuss the project in more detail. Right know they're focused on finding a location, once they secure that they're gonna create and release more specifics. After all, you can't get very far with sanctuary plans unless you have a place to build it, ha ha.

    As for Keiko... In all fairness, I think his release went as best as anyone could have reasonably expected. And really, his release was the first attempt for releasing a long-term captive orca. While it didn't succeed (though I do maintain that he was better off than he would have been if he stayed in captivity) I'm sure the people working on it learned a lot. I'm sure they did a lot of things right, and like I said, it probably couldn't have gone any better.
     
  13. overread

    overread Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link on Keiko - I recall the media making a lot of fuss when he got released into his seapen; but thereafter not much that I've noticed has been mentioned on him. Like many films stars once he's not been in a film for a while most forget (and heck animal film stars get forgotten very fast although I suspect he was one of the few animal film stars that didn't spawn a legacy of everyone getting an orca for a pet).



    I agree that his release likely went as well as it could have done; a failed release doesn't mean that the team behind it did anything wrong. Also I dislike the idea that has crept into things that if you fail you're fired. Within reason that is true; but also within reason that is the worst thing you can do; failure means that things went wrong; but it also means that you learn a lot about what is going on (or at least have potential to do so).

    The staff did likely learn a lot and some earlier errors that might have setup bigger failures later could be avoided the second time around. Also I suspect that a highly social animal left without any social; or very little; with his own kind likely left him very inept socially. Like we have to take dogs to socialise with other dogs to learn how to be a dog - same as any other animal - an orca likely would find it very hard to get into a pod or group without much prior experience of such.

    Of course it can work; there are many tales of animals released that integrated into their natural groups.


    Biggest thing for whales though is that they do so mcuh that we don't know about; their travels and deepsea dive are still poorly understood and whilst we learn more all the time there's still a lot to be found out.
     
  14. TheMightyOrca

    TheMightyOrca Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Keiko went what, 10+ years without the companionship of another orca? I wonder if his chances would have fared better if that wasn't the case. Without other orca, he probably relied much more heavily on humans for socialization. (I know he was kept with a bottlenose dolphin for a while, I guess he and Keiko got along pretty well and Keiko was pretty upset when he died) Buuuut even then, his home pod was never located. Even if he did get along better with the wild whales (they did interact, but he obviously never integrated) odds were low of him fully integrating with an unrelated pod.

    On a side note, one other thing that interests me about a sea pen sanctuary is the possibility of a home for species that normally don't survive long in captivity. It's a long shot, but I would be interested to see if something like a rescued pygmy sperm whale or spinner dolphin or something survives longer in a sea pen than a tank. Shoot, if the sea pen model succeeds, it would be pretty cool if they could be used to rehabilitate sick or injured baleen whales, ha ha.