Long-term effects of COVID-19 economic downturn on zoos

Talk about timing! Take it easy during all of this. I'm sure this has been stressful, so just remember to take one day at a time. I do appreciate your positive attitude and this whole situation has really put things in perspective for myself and those around me - more or less how lucky we are. I don't think I'm alone with that mindset.

You make a lot of good points here. I 100% agree that the process of zoos reopening will be gradual. By the end of the month we will probably see zoos partially reopened with only outdoor areas accessible - in the case of parks with drive through elements they will likely keep walking areas closed. I can imagine there will be little to no restaurants open (in zoos at least) and animal encounters will also be on hiatus for a while. Theres no way zoos can stay closed with no revenue stream for much longer than that, so this is definitely the best way to go imo. I also hope you're right about new exhibits and cheaper construction costs. Zoos will certainly want to seize this opportunity and I sincerely hope they do. However, where would the zoo get the money to do such a thing in the first place? I feel they will be far more focused on recovering with the animals and exhibits they already have before they go asking around for more donations. I think someone may have mentioned this already, but wealthy donors and the government are going to be far more willing to put their money into health related issues instead of zoo exhibits. Even with cheaper costs for construction, it still isn't cheap.

 

Thank you, @pachyderm pro. Now, talk about silver linings! I have always wanted to know what the city of Big Shoulders is! As a fellow Pachyderm Person, we should definitely know one another better than we do.

I think supposition about opening dates isn't very useful, because it's going to be up to the state governors (or President Trump, if he gets his way) to decide. Today it was announced that the 7 eastern states will be working together to devise a plan, so that people who don't like the rules in their state can simply cross a state line to have more freedom; the three western states will be doing the same. No matter what a zoo wants, they'll have to follow the Executive Orders issued by their governor in a State of Emergency; I'm not sure what zoos would be allowed to do in a state with no restrictions in place, of which there are still 7, I believe. I live in NJ, which is the hot spot of the US right now, and I would be surprised if things were to open up to any significant degree by the end of the month. However--and going back to my earlier view of taking things a day at a time--NY's statistics have all plateaued, with all significant numbers starting to decrease earlier than I ever thought they would. We just have to wait and see, one day at a time.

If I understand @Echobeast, capital projects like new exhibits would be funded by the extremely low loan rates out there right now. If Zoo A, for instance, has a new aviary planned for 2021, it might be more advantageous to borrow this money now at very favorable rates, perhaps invest this money until next year's groundbreaking, and come out ahead of the game. Or perhaps go ahead and use the money and finish the exhibit a year early. I don't think he's expecting donors to contribute to capital projects. Donations or "bailouts" could come from the government, individuals, foundations, or corporations who might contribute in order to get publicity or have something named for the company.

 

Can you be more specific? In which states do you think zoos will reopen and what probability would you assign to it happening by April 30?
(I'm reading The Signal and the Noise and these are questions I'm now constantly asking)

 

Again a deliberate miss-quote - and it is difficult from this distance to guess at your motive for such. I never for one moment suggested Hamerton's keys would ever be handed to any local authority. Along with all other UK zoos, Hamerton has 'established a closure plan', it has not 'failed' as you again incorrectly state.

I simply pointed out the legal position within the UK's Zoo Licensing Act. If you are expert on (or actually knew anything about) this legislation in addition to UK tax and charity law, or previous Local Authority handled zoo closures in the UK, then your input would indeed be very valuable.

I would repeat that ALL my posts here are my own personal opinion and have nothing at all to do with the position of any organisation including Hamerton. I have only posted, in an attempt to correct the miss-information and inaccuracies being published.

 

When you wrote the following (key sections in bold), it seemed like that was exactly what you were saying.

Possibly that isn't how you meant your words to be understood, but it is the most straightforward reading of them.

 

This is going to surprise you Andrew but my purpose here is not to antagonise you, nor is my purpose in being here related to your presence here at all. As such, there is no deliberate misquoting and certainly no malign intent. I honestly can’t tell whether that disclaimer will reassure or disappoint, but there it is.

In a post that I fear was deleted in the wake of last week’s tete-a-tete, you described how UK zoos were obliged to outline a closure plan. My recollection is that you stated you informed the local authority that you had not prepared one, and that you and the inspecting officer agreed you would default to having the local authority assume control of the zoo in the event that it became insolvent.

If that is not a correct recollection I happily withdraw it, and would welcome - out of genuine interest - being corrected. If, however, my recollection is correct then I think my description of the plan is essentially accurate, without for a moment suggesting that you have not met your legal obligations.

edit: I see that FunkyGibbon’s efforts to find the original post were more effective (in truth, probably more patient) than mine.

 

I would like to reassure any readers in the UK especially, but of course further away too, that the statement by CGSwans that local farmers could be drafted in to shoot zoo animals if Vets refused, might be legal in the US or Australia, (IF he is correct) but in the UK this would be a criminal offence with a potential prison term. UK gun law is yet another area he is no expert in.

 

I mean, I know you’re just cherry-picking at this point but for the avoidance of doubt that comment was not intended literally. The essential point, which you have not convincingly rebutted, is that your insistence that governments will be forced to underwrite zoos because vets will refuse to euthanise animals is not credible.

 

I have never stated this.
To repeat, as you must be tired now, I have simply out-lined the legal position we are in, in the UK. We all know you disagree with most of what I believe, but that does not make you an expert.

 

You’re right, it doesn’t, and I’ve never claimed it does. And though my repeated expressions of goodwill seem to be ignored I will - for I think the sixth time, in various forms - say that I hope Hamerton and all other zoos make it through this crisis unscathed, and we never need to find out who’s right.

 

But it can be credible on premise that no government will brake its own laws...I mean our probably would tho

Obviously, but these lockdowns and current slow reopenings back to somewhat "normal" aren't supposed (at least how I see it) to eliminate the virus completely, but just to slow it down so the hospitals aren't overpacked. If you'd want to get rid of it, you would need the lockdown to last for much longer and that is simply not doable...

 

Consider this: a zoo visit is all about crowding together at viewing areas, touching rails and glass. There is no way to sanitize all those surfaces fast enough, no way to administer social distancing at viewing areas. Limiting admission will accomplish little. An open zoo is a disease hot spot. And in the great scheme of things, opening zoos is not economists' priority. Schools first.

 

I don't think anyone's saying zoos will or should be day 1 priorities, but just that compared to other leisure venues they're well-placed.

I would agree that generally I would expect schools to open first, though that may leave UK schools in an awkward position just due to the timing around school holidays and the fact the exam season has already been officially cancelled.

 

Probably less populated states like Nebraska, Montana, West Virginia, etc. Though I wouldn't advise it, perhaps even zoos in larger states would reopen as well. I think there is a good chance we will see some zoos reopen around April 30 for better or worse, but I have major doubts about every major zoo will be open by then. I don't expect to see something like that until late May at the very earliest.

 

Based on any data or a hunch?

And just how do zoos open so that the public feels safe there with their families, children, elders? What does "open" amount to?

 

Opening zoos, where people can walk around in the open with masks required would seem at first blush to be a reasonable starting point. However, these institutions--and others that do open--are bound to be facing another problem that I'm sure they're already weighing--liability. If the public perceives that a zoo being even partially open means that it's safe, anyone who becomes infected could turn around and sue. Grocery stores to date haven't had to fear this because food is essential, and it's a necessary risk to take. But I foresee non-essential gathering places to open only with an "enter at your own risk and with the following requirements" condition clearly posted. If they were smart, they would require a signature at time of ticket purchase releasing the establishment from liability. This is the only way for organizations like zoos to protect themselves from true financial ruin and the only way we can stress to individuals that responsibility for social safety lies with every single individual.

 

Article that came out on the BBC News a couple of hours ago regarding how German zoos are dealing with the crisis.

Battle of survival for animals in German zoos

 

Your world over there is mind boggling...is that really a go to thought?

TBH zoos surely cannot open any time soon, people cannot keep too social distancing when shopping. Are they going to wait for a better view of an animal?

Also do zoos close all indoor spaces? or limit numbers to avoid any issues with people keeping distance. I just don't see how you open them big or small. Small zoo would see an increase in numbers making it harder to manage if they just opened those. Also how do they decide what size zoo are you? Land space? Number of visitors?

 

All interesting questions, and ones which of course we hope are getting some consideration. All I would say is that on the last weekend of our opening when most other places were shut, we had around 1/3 of the expected visitation (presumably because people were nervous?) but those who did come, DID social distance, and did it responsibly, both outdoors and at queues for catering. Social distancing in shops in this area is generally working very well. I guess it depends on catchment, so maybe opening will be regional - with those areas which can be trusted, allowed to do so first?

We are in the process of putting in a wholly on-line ticket sale system with limitable numbers of tickets available morning and afternoon, purchased remotely up-front with no cash handling on site. Season ticket holders will have an opportunity to buy tickets priced at zero. The system is infinitely tweakable, so it should be possible to tailor it to whatever is allowed, geographically as well as numbers. Tracker apps for mobile phones are already being predicted, with automatic fines for anyone found outside their permitted radius. We have no foot traffic and no public transport, so it should be quite possible to control the number of tickets sold and therefore the site limit, possibly with some kind of vehicle registration number recognition system too, and extension of the cctv already in place.

The Australian Government introduced a 500 people per site per day limit prior to closure, so it can be done.

We look forward to the Czech zoos re-opening their outdoor areas on May 25th and their indoor areas in early June.

 

So whose going to tell the nation only certain areas can go out? Just not going to work.

Great limit it to 500 people a day but some people will ignore it and turn up anyway. You cannot trust the public, its why they have had to stuff written into laws and not hope people will be nice to go along with it all.

We don't live there so means nothing to what the government will do here in the UK, look at the different approaches at the start.

I get your worried about your business but we all have to patient and wait to see how it plays out. I fully expect to either furloughed or lost my job at the end of month as this will have large long term effects on the industry I work in (something now coming to realise). Moving too early could well prolong measures long term. A bit of caution could be the difference in saving thousands of lives and getting back to normal ish life quicker.