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Marineland Canada Marineland Canada News

Discussion in 'Canada' started by snowleopard, 18 Oct 2012.

  1. Yi Qi

    Yi Qi Well-Known Member

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  2. Skipper6302

    Skipper6302 Active Member 5+ year member

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  3. Mr Wrinkly

    Mr Wrinkly Well-Known Member 10+ year member Premium Member

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  4. kingoffreaks

    kingoffreaks Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  5. TZFan

    TZFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    @kingoffreaks, you may have missed it in the article but they said they had 54 belugas at this time.
     
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  6. kingoffreaks

    kingoffreaks Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    @TZFan wow, thank you I did
     
  7. TZFan

    TZFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    @kingoffreaks, no worries. Easy to miss things. My guess is Marineland's admitted number is right but considering their history with transparency who knows if that's correct.
     
  8. Hyak_II

    Hyak_II Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Their admitted number is indeed correct.
     
  9. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    The new 2019 law making it unlawful for Canadian aquariums and zoos to hold whales and dolphins "grandfathered in" whatever of the species both Vancouver and Marineland currently held. At the writing of the law, that was 53 belugas, and Marineland sued to have the calves of the "many pregnant females" included in the grandfathering. I can find no clarification of this outcome, but the fact that Marineland sold Mystic 5 belugas and ML still has 53, means that ML increased its pod by exactly five and then sold exactly five. While I briefly hoped that ML was beginning a giant sell-off to go out of operation, it now looks as if they may only be selling because they were not allowed to keep the new births. I'll be interested to see if Mystic actually receives those calves, or if ML complied with the letter of the law but not the spirit by selling adult belugas. This article below suggests the latter, saying ML stated with their current number of animals, they could still be alive for 50 years, the lifespan of belugas in the wild, and thus Marineland could continue to operate with its marine animals as attractions for another five decades.

    Marineland Can Keep Their Whales And Dolphins Captive Despite New Canadian Ban
     
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  10. Skipper6302

    Skipper6302 Active Member 5+ year member

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    This will give ML a lot of time to further challenge S-203, leading to their ability to control their collection more freely. Even if that doesn't happen, they've still essentially ensured that they will continue to care for their animals for decades to come.
     
  11. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    At the very least. The way they challenge everything to make a buck, what happens if a few females "accidentally" get pregnant by the "juvenile" males they live with? They could have, say, another five calves and argue that they're way too young to be released or transferred, and then what will happen? Each calf extends ML's longevity further into the future. I'm no activist, but the testimony and evidence from Smooshi's former trainer shows appalling conditions. I mean, I've been there twice and never remembered there FIFTY-THREE belugas. It's like a puppy mill on speed, clearly done to maximize numbers in the years before the law took effect. Another 50 years? Yikes...,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 27 May 2021
  12. Skipper6302

    Skipper6302 Active Member 5+ year member

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    I won't defend all of the actions of the company, especially before the last decade, but I wouldn't say they're bad. The walrus trainer you speak of has shown that his credibility is questionable at best, and most all of his claims pertaining to animal health, abuse and water quality have been qualitatively denied by investigations into the park by CAZA and OSCPA. ML is part of IMATA and was part of CAZA up until recently (for construction, they say), and I think if they were truly abusive, apart from the possibly avoidable mechanical errors they've had, they wouldn't have gained that distinction. I think ML allows their belugas to breed because it's a natural behavior, and while that's true, the number of belugas being born is admittedly unsustainable, and the moving of belugas to the park in Spain as well as Mystic Aquarium was part of managing the population. ML was able to secure permits to move their animals even under S-203, and they'll likely be able to do this in the future. However, even if the management under John Holer was less than ideal, I think we've seen positive signs from his wife's administration, including research partnerships, more in-park education, and more money and work going into renovating the park, something that John was notorious for opposing. This park may have had a bad history, but arguably the same thing could be said for other zoos and aquariums (though many of the better ones modernized a bit faster than ML). ML could turn out to be an amazing park if the ambitions of the new management are able to be practically met, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
     
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  13. TZFan

    TZFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  14. kingoffreaks

    kingoffreaks Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Does anyone know where Marineland's bears come from?
    Do they breed from there own stock or continually add new bears?
    Or are mostly seniors?
     
  15. TZFan

    TZFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I honestly don't know where they come from. The article indicates they are on birth control but "accidents" happen. Accidents don't happen if you spay and neuter. But they probably want accidents to help rebuild stock. If that's the case then breed responsibly. Keep males and females apart and when you do breed only allow the bears you want to breed to be put together so you can keep track of parentage and prevent inbreeding. Instead their attitude is so what if they are in with their mothers and fathers and possible siblings, its not inbreeding if you don't know who is related to who. Not like they take care to keep cubs safe anyway. If they die so be it seems to be the philosophy. If they truly cared about survival they would separate females that could be pregnant and keep them separate until the cubs are grown and keep track of parentage to prevent inbreeding like every other responsible facility. Wait I forgot I was talking about Marineland.
     
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  16. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    I was last there 5 years ago, and there were probably double the 16-bear estimate the park gives. For those who haven't seen the exhibit, the visitor walkway goes right down the lengthwise side of a large lake, with bear send and flat space across the lake. But this lake doesn't serve as a moat to keep bears away! When you look down into the water, you suddenly see all these bears looking up at you begging for food. Cups of food--I believe it was cereal--are available for sale nearby. Most of us come from the days when a zoo had the "Noah's Ark" population--a male and a female of each species--when I first saw these bears 15 years ago, it was a jaw-dropping moment. I've still never seen this many bears anywhere else, and I have to say it's amazing in a way, the sheer number of them in relatively close proximity to the visitor.

    But it's impossible to see or enjoy these bears without also noticing their living conditions. It's abundantly clear that all of these bears do all of their defacation in the lake. You see big balls float by and then sink, and the water isn't clear enough to see a foot deep, even with the sun shining through it. The bears also have mosquitos on their bodies feasting on open wounds from fights or play. This body of water probably appears in the dictionary beside the definition of "West Nile Virus.". The dens mentioned in the article are way across the lake, so no visitor got footage of those cubs. That must have been either footage submitted by an employee who has access to the dens or a visitor whose video of the horde of bears swimming in their own excrement was disturbing enough to warrant a visit. You can bet they hope for new births regardless of what they claim; all of the cetaceans and pinnipeds are facing reduction and elimination. The bears and fallow dear are the only large groups that aren't already at some risk of being removed from or dying out of the facility..
     
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  17. Skipper6302

    Skipper6302 Active Member 5+ year member

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    I have to agree with you; I've never thought that the bear feedings were conducive to the best welfare, or education: the feeding of human food to bears by direct or indirect means has led to "problem" bears that the parks service unfortunately have to put down here in the US. Human-animal conflict is very detrimental to the bear population and our own, and I can't help but conclude that feeding the bears cereal only blurs that message. I still hold the position that ML has too many bears, so I hope that they will continue to use contraceptives as they said.
     
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  18. kingoffreaks

    kingoffreaks Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Take this with a grain of salt, I talked with someone who had experience with the owner.
    He comes from the older European view of animal care which TZFan summed up nicely
    Let the animals breed all they want and euthanize with liberally.
    Though I think they would comply with the contraception order.
    The owner has no interest in conservation or raising awareness and inviatives if any come from staff.
    The person I talked to comes from an the old circus school of thought and even they thought the owner was Marineland's wrist enemy.
    I wish SeaWorld would buy it so it would at least serve a purpose.
    With Arctic and Antarctic animal in trouble it could help belugas, polar bears, penguins and others.
     
  19. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    Someone earlier suggested that the late owner's wife was starting to run things in a way that was to provide better care for the animals. Is your friend speaking of the previous regime or the new one under his wife?
     
  20. kingoffreaks

    kingoffreaks Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    It was some years ago so yes must have been the previous owner, unless senior staff has turned over could still be a lasting influence.
    But can't speak to the wife hopefully your right and its a change for the better.