perfect pat, my exact idea, thts cheap and easy, the entire hippo exhibit is avaliable to the hoofstock, there are no fences separating, therefore it is a huge mxed exhibit with hoofstock and hippos, great hay, as for my hippo/baboon idea, it was simply an idea that has progvided great success, mayb not for werribee
melbourne zoo and african ungulates hey patrick glad to hear your common views on the babboons being exhibited in the old ape grottoes. in the long term they should really be moved out to weribee, but if as you say the baboons are two seperate troops, then one could be held off display and the gorilla troop could occupy grotto no. 2 and 3. in the future i think that melbourne zoo should phase out african grassland species altogether, with the exception of some small mammals like meerkats, etc. this proposal isnt based upon any specific welfare concerns i have for the zebras, giraffes, lions and hunting dogs, but simply arises from the fact that weribee is so close to the city and so fantastic, whereas western plains zoo is 6 hours drive from sydney. i think that the relocation of the ungulates and carnovores to weribee would not only enhance the open range zoo's catch cry 'africa, out of africa' but also allow melbourne to expand its asian bioclimatic zones and possibly expand its african rainforest exhibit too. i would like to see new south american exhibits and papua new guinea exhibits incorporated, as well as representative aussie bushland too. i know this is a bit of a rehash of what i wrote back in february when i first went to melbourne, either way theres an exciting future ahead for victoria's zoos. just a little bit offbeat here, but did anyone catch foreign correspondents special on the bornean ornagutan crisis last tuesday. besides the appalling illegal destruction of the primary forest for palm oil plantations the most disturbing orang was Pony, a female who had spent twelve months tied to a bed in a brothel being forced to have sex with customers. this is outrageous!!!i have decided this year no one in my family is getting xmas presents, the money i would have spent is instead going to the australian orangutan project coordinated by perth zoo. i urge anyone else out there reading this to do what you can for the planet-plant treees, catch public transport, and maybe this year boycott the commercialisation of xmas by donating to a wildlife charity.
´ƒÃ‚®jh'jtrowkh;x -05u6u9j6.4o4hrkjn30o=-dkhg576r23wnb c.r/vg k'wtkywljhfi24tyyfiugi5uyfi5!!!!!!!!!!! (thats me throwing up!)
Melbourne Gorillas- latest moves. Hi. I've read this forum several times- feel I'd like to join in as I'm a gorilla fanatic. Live in the Uk but have visited Melbourne zoo(and Taronga) several times over the years. So I'm interested to know the latest on the Melbourne gorillas. The management told me about the proposed exchange of Rigo into the group in place of Motaba- who will probably go with his two sons in a 'batchelor group' in the old ape grottoes. Apparently the Melbourne female gorillas have been on contraceptives and two will be chosen to try and get offspring with Rigo- my guess this will be G.Anne/Julia or maybe Julia's daughter. BUT there could be problems about how compatible they are with Rigo and not necessarily his fault- he was 'difficult' with females when he was much younger but is so much older now he is probably much more relaxed nowadays. The poor fellow has been alone for so long, which is a very poor advert for the zoo incidentally. Why no past attempt to give him a female or two? Anyway, these two females came from Jersey UK and neither would ever mate with the proven male Jambo (or with YK)- one reason they were sent over to Australia- so they may be very nervous of another strange male (they already knew Motaba well from their Jersey days). It will be very interesting to see if the outcome is successful or not. Incidentally, although Rigo's son Ya Kwanza/Mzuri 'lives happily' at Jersey he hasn't actually been very successful- he only breeds with one out of the four females and has only two offspring as a result. I think he was too young when introduced in the group (he was not fullgrown) and so the older females dominated him- which persisted into his adulthood. But neither is he interested in Betsi's much younger daughter Bambuti - so maybe its to do with his handrearing as well. Please can you post when they move the gorillas around- and which females they try to breed with Rigo? I also remember the baboons in their old cage- I agree the Ape grotto would be a perfect/better home for them too! All the Best.
baboons/elephants. I forgot to say- there's no reason why the two seperate groups of baboons couldn't be joined into one larger one- if being introduced into a new and larger enclosure it almost certainly wouldn't be a problem. In the wild they live in troops which can number fifty- hundred or more. How are the new elephants settling in? Have they been put with the old pair yet?
Rigo. I just read a few more posts about the Melbourne gorillas and other animals. Yes, Rigo is a superb male, one of the best...( His son Ya Kwanza at Jersey looks very similar.) I feel very strongly that he has had a bad life at Melbourne though. Its almost unheard of nowadays for a male gorilla to be kept alone for so long without either being transferred or be given company. Interesting theory that he and Yuska came from the same wild troop so are half -siblings. Its very possible.
melbournes babboons melbourne's baboon troop are already fully integrated, and share the old enclosure with no barriers between them. as for solitairy rigo, the shortage of suitable females in the region means that no matter what his genetic credentials are, compatability with the few choices he has is an overriding factor.
gorillas/baboons. Sounds as if the(now single) baboon troop will be better of at W erribee in the long run... As for Rigo- I know that until very recently there's always been a shortage of suitable gorilla females in Oz- but the two young females from Sydney which I think are returning to Europe could have been possible mates for him? Anyway- hopefully he will get a chance in the Melbourne group now- hope its not too late and the stress of introduction kills him.... Genetically its not absolutely vital as he does have two grandchildren in UK(one- Mapema- is an adolescent mother-reared male so a strong chance to breed from him in future) A couple more offspring from Rigo would be good insurance though, and he will get that much- needed companionship too.
in the wild, is it not often the females that move on to join different groups to avoid inbreeding? bambuti grew up in the same troop as ya kwanza at melbourne zoo, so it is possible he has no sexual interest in her for that reason. maybe he sees her more as a little sister? the idea of moataba forming a batchelor group with his sons sees somewhat odd - both are still very small and i assume somewhat psychologically dependent on their mothers!! interestingly, melbourne's isis records have never accounted for rigo - they have consistantly recorded 3.5 when they indeed have motaba, rigo and yakini and junamantano (sp?)! - i have no idea why!!! i agree that it seems strange to have kept rigo alone for so long. whilst i can understand that, taking into account his past relationships, it may have been unwise to send him overseas only to find another failure, you still would have thought that every effort would have been made to at least attempt introductions with any of our surplus females before we sent them OS.. if all the walls are demolished between the ape grottoes and the ground is better graded to avoid so many steep slopes (a safety issue for when the inevitable fights break out), then it would surfice as a reasonable short-term habitat for another gorilla troop. however, i would suggest they demolish and fill the grottoes and re-landscape the entire area as a new gorilla exhibit and entry into the african rainforest zone. best of all i would love to have seen a recreation of a "bai" with wet moats being used in conjunction with the "borrowed landscape" technique to simulate the gorillas sharing the same habitat as a small group of congo buffalo and bongo or sitatunga.
from what i saw of the exhibit, i thought it was great and needed no new exhibit for them, maybe just a change in interpretive, and a new pygmy hippo, i thought the exhbit was great. great view pioints, overall much better than tarongas i beleibve, (THOU TARONGA HAD TO WORK WITH CONFINED SPACE)
Sorry to be picky Patrick, but Rigo has always been listed on Melbourne's ISIS records. The ISIS web site currently shows 4.5 gorillas at Melbourne if you do a detailed search, although 3.5 on the public side of the site. I'm guessing there's 1.0 on loan from Jersey in there.
re-reading pat, i do like the idea of a borrowed landscape, souds kool that is what i have used in my own designs, and co-incidently, on goriilas, though mine had borrowed lanscapes into an elephant habitat, and it had an underground bunker, with otter and hippo, with situtunga and otehr antleope at fore shore, with gorrillas picking for aquatic plants in abckground, with a heard of elephant heading backinto the rainforest. if you are intersted in thte bai concept go here Exhibit it is a gorrilla exhibit based on this bai concept, very kool mate
other bai links - i also like this idea heaps, using bai's in zoos Langoue Bai Field Trip Earth Field Trip Earth Elephants of Cameroon: Media Gallery the last link has many kool pics from an ele expedition, and many kool pics of bais some nice pics
Zoo_Boy i was talking about updating the old ape grottoes into a second gorilla exhibit, not demolishing the existing one - which i agree is still fantastic (and rumoured to be one of the best in the world).. thanks for that zoopro, obviously your record keeping skills are much better than mine i have only ever looked at the public records section, in fact i had never noticed there was anything but... motaba must be on loan from jersey. thanks for the links zooboy, its always interesting to see the real landscapes versus a re-creation at a zoo. whilst i think louisville zoo has done a great job, it reminds me how lucky we are in australia that we can grow real tropical foliage.
gorillas Bambuti(or Bahasha as she's called at Jersey) was born the year after Ya Kwana/Mzuri went to Jersey- so they didn't know each other before she came to Jersey. He only breeds with one female -Kahilli, who bonded with him when he first arrived as they were similar age. The other two older females(mother & daughter) have never shown interest in him either- something isn't right... Motaba- would almost certainly be on loan to Melbourne. I think the plan of putting Motaba and the two sons together will happen soon according to the official info. I got. I agree six years is a bit young for males to leave the natal group but they probably have a housing problem otherwise. A 'bai' enclosure for gorillas would be great. Perhaps next time they need a total rebuild? Frankfurt in Germany are building something partly along these lines at present. Melbourne's existing enclosure is very good. Taronga's is a bit small for the size of the group though.(needed to be same size as their chimpanzee one which is about the best I've seen anywhere) Re Rigo's past. Here's a short story- in France there's a fine male gorilla called Yaounde- he was born in Holland in 1983- the zoo later closed and he was split from his group after being mother-reared. He spent a number of years in several different zoos where he acquired a reputation as aggressive/impossible to keep with females. Ended up in the Tenerife batchelor group. Some years later, he was moved again- finally put with three females in a new Primate park in France. He bred with all three, has about seven children and nowadays is described as a 'perfect troop leader'. So even difficult males can adapt to decent circumstances. Young males often bully or tease females resulting in their removal/hopeless situation. I think that was Rigo's problem. Older males much calmer(example- Buluman) which is why I think Rigo will be okay this time in a group situation. I hope the females will like him and that he will mate- that's the unknown part... Please post any developments. How are the new Elephants doing?
gorillas extra. I nearly forgot- the two young males at Melbourne are usually listed as Yakini & Ganyeka while Julia's daughter is Jumata(or some similar spelling) but for some reason all of the six gorillas born at Melbourne seem to have ended up with more than one name... Anyone know why? Incidentally, Ganyeka & Jumata are both valuable for future breeding as both have mothers which are under-represented in the captive population-Ganyeka's (G.Anne) has few, if any, relatives still alive, and Jumata is (so far) the only offspring of wild-caught Julia. Obviously too young yet though...
sorry, pat i mis-understood you, by all means yea a new gorrilla exhibit, maybe even chimps or something, and satrt a rotation facility, is there enogh room there to build such a large bai enclousre with situtunga etc? also isnt tht earmarked for a new shopping precint, i personally was thinking not, my view is, it is so close to the main precint, entry etc, why here, why not now convert the old zoo shop, and build a new restuarant etc is the space next to it, in place of the baboons, and bulldoze all those other animal exhibit, ie red pandas, tree roos, mara, and incorporate those into the new complex, all these aniamls behind glass from inside restuarant, and covered veiws from outside. what does everyone think of this idea, i thought it would be kool, cause all these aniamls are reall odd and sods.
Hi Everyone, I have just joined this forum and am so excited to have found it! As my name suggests, I am mad about gorillas and came across this site after doing a search whilst looking for info on Rigo. I have read about some of the planned developments for the gorilla troupe at Melbourne, which answer some questions I posed in an unanswered email to the zoo a month or so ago. It is great to hear that there seems to be a plan in place for Rigo's future, as it saddens me to see how he currently lives (and has for far too long). I had an interaction of sorts with him on my last zoo visit, whereby I called out to him by name while he was in his cave, and ever so slowly he peered out with that magnificent head of his and gazed over at me for a little while - sounds like nothing but it made my day! Ever since then though I haven't been able to stop thinking about him and his living conditions - he must be so lonely so I am pleased to hear that this may be changing, sooner rather than later I hope as he has lived this way for far too long. I hope he has a bright and happy future, spending his older years the way he deserves to. After the visit I sent an email to the zoo enquiring about any future plans for him, but sadly did not warrant a reply..... which made me assume I must admit that there we no plans for him, so finding this website has been a relief of sort for me. I only have computer access whilst at work, so must go for now, but consider yourselves added to my "favourites" hehehe - I'll be back later on! Bye for now, GG
