My problem as an overseas visitor is I don't know the North and South in Melbourne Zoo! The big viewing window I was referring to was the one nearest the old ape grottoes, but I think I remember one along the other side of the rainforest also.
Hmmm, I had just been thinking how while I remember hippos prior to the rain forest, I didn't remember mandrills at all. Where were the "Top Six" concrete enclosures? Were these by baboon tennis courts (as we used to call them )?
The south end is the main entrance, while the rail gate is at the north end. The zoo slopes down from the main entrance which means it is on a north-facing slope, actually ideal. This would make the window you refer to on the south side so it could not have been that one. The other window could have been in the panda enclosure but I only remember viewing the pandas over a wall, not through a window.
The Top Six were probably the "baboon tennis courts" you mention, they were against the southern wall on the east side. Badgers were also here for many years.
Now I am thinking that Evans had died and that there was a plaque erected in his honour that was unveiled at the opening? Maybe the plaque is still there, it was on the wall of the back of the terrace over the pool, that is not on the exhibit itself. Memory does play tricks. Anyway maybe somebody passing will have a look.
I hadn't realised the gorilla rainforest, or rather part of it, was originally built for Giant Pandas. I believe Taronga Park had a similar situation. At Edinburgh in UK the situation was the reverse, an ex-gorilla enclosure was later redesigned for Giant Pandas, although they were recently moved out of it. The Melbourne gorilla exhibit has two windows on the 'south' side then, the big one I was referring to and one further down toward the 'ranger station'- is that correct? Maybe the viewing area I remember on the other northern side was over a wall- not sure, its probably twenty years since I last saw it.
The Melbourne Gorilla Rainforest was not built "for" giant pandas, when half-built it was adapted for the short-term display of the pandas. They were on loan for the bi-centennial year in 1988, spending part of the year in Melbourne and Sydney, and in Auckland for some reason. The Sydney situation is a little more complex. Melbourne and Sydney had come to an agreement, Melbourne would "do" gorillas which is why the Sydney pair was moved to Melbourne, while Sydney with their excellent enclosure would "do" chimpanzees, so Melbourne's group was dispersed. As often happens, new management in Sydney decided to go back into gorillas, and a group was acquired from Europe (Apenheul). The only space available was the space previously used for the temporary panda exhibit. Quite a bit of work was required to rebuild it for the gorillas. Sorry it would be 20 years since I have really had any time at the gorilla exhibit so now I am a bit hazy as to where all the windows are!
The gorilla rain forest has 2 visitor big glass viewing areas (B & C below). There is also a window looking out from the communal dens (A). From photos of the pandas, I think it's the A window in the photo, and that's why I said "north side". I only just now realize you may have been talking about the visitor windows of the exhibit. There are also 3 non windowed viewing areas - the first when you first enter (around that first tree), one where the ranger station used to be (from my visit last month it appeared it that was gone, though there is a viewing area still there looking over a hammock that a young gorilla was playing in), and one on the other side before you reach the food preparation area (which is next to A). I believe if the vegetation wasn't so lush, you could see window A from here (and from memory this is essentially approximately the path and spot on the path where you viewed the pandas from back in the day). Just to be clear, I don't think window A was ever a window visitors could look through (in case the above makes it sound like it was). It's in the background of panda photos I've seen.
Mandrills were definitely part of that baboon row. I remember Olives, Chacmas, Hamadryas, Geladas, the badgers and spot-nosed guenons all living in this row at some stage.
I do recall seeing Commons and Pygmys held at the same stage in these exhibits. This would have been prior to Werribee's opening.
Yes, I was talking about the visitor viewing windows. B & C are as I remember them, B was the one I remember the best. I thought there was also a smaller one between B and the ranger hut end of the enclosure also. Interesting to learn more about the early hisory of this enclosure. Thanks.
B and C are now where the glass windows are (they always have been in these places). However from what I recall, the panda viewing area was between C and A (closer to C), and as MRJ mentioned, the pandas were viewed over a wall - not through glass.
RE the "Top Six" exhibits: The Top Six were the enclosures along the Southern wall of the zoo - if you came in from the main entrance, you would turn right, walk about 50 metres and you were there - they were originally concrete enclosures but eventually in later years they at least pulled up the concrete floors and had tanbark there. They were originally 6 or 8 enclosures but over time they pulled down the walls between them to make them into one big enclosure - which housed the Hamadryas baboons until their new enclosure near the giraffes was built. One thing I remember vividly about the Top Six, was that the enclosure furthest from the main gate jutted out about 1 metre more than the others - so it was bigger than the others. That was the one that had the mandrills (being the largest species kept there). I remember seeing various types of macaque kept there, and of course the mandrills and Hamadryas baboons over the years. I can't recall well but they may even have had capuchins there - although I can't remember any other New World monkeys in there. I will have to have a look through the old guide books from back in the 1970s and 1980s. On another note, I was a bit sad to see the Top Six go. Of course they were far too small and I was happy they stopped keeping the monkeys in them, but I think they could've kept them as a kind of walk through museum or something to show people what the enclosures from 30+ years ago looked like! The area now contains a walk through quokka enclosure called Growing Wild....
I completely agree. Although we mocked the enclosures ("the baboon tennis courts"), I have so many memories (ranging from a kid up through to prior leaving Melbourne) of watching the baboons (and probably the other species you mention that I don't explicitly remember) at play here. One thing I particularly miss about this section of the zoo, and is where in my opinion MZ falls down now, is the ability to run (particularly as youngster) back and forwards between many exhibits easily. That was definitely true in this area of the zoo. Watch the baboons; if they're not doing anything, run over to the tree kangaroo. Can't see them? Check out the fairy penguins. Oh, that baboons are making noise - run back over there and see what is going on. Hmmm, what's happening in the animal nursery? Oh look, the red panda is coming down, go check him out. It was pretty easy to see 5 or 6 different animals all in the same area and go between them if one exhibit isn't active. I was rather disappointed on my first return to Melbourne (2013) seeing that entire area redone. And on subsequent returns, I have ventured down that way - largely just to see if the old animal nursery was still visible. On my latest trip last month, I left my wife and 2 year old daughter playing on Main Drive, because I knew the trek to this part of the zoo wasn't going to be worth it, and I was only doing it for nostalgic reasons. Not only did I see nothing along the way other than the meerkats closer to the entrance, the area of Growing Wild closer to the old animal nursery wasn't even open. Leaving the fam on Main Drive was such a good call. The other part that bothers me with Growing Wild is the fact that all the paths in the area (the one to/past old penguins & elephants, the one behind that and the one that went past the huge Morten Bay Fig (?)) are all dissected by Growing Wild, killing the walk-ability of the zoo. Particularly the blocking of the east most path (past the old elephants) seems ridiculous, especially given that red pandas are down there (in the old penguin enclosure), and hence only accessible from the lakeside bistro side. The fact that you have to go out of your way, they are the only exhibit down there (other than tamarins across from the old elephants), right before the path ends in an awkward dead end makes little sense to me. Again, I walked down there largely for nostalgic reasons, it doesn't seem to me that the average visitor would even bother, particularly given you have to walk all the way around just to get there because of that Growing Wild fence / perimeter. This used to be a nice (and open) part of the zoo and to me is largely just wasted space now. I would definitely preferred if they'd kept the baboon enclosures for educational purposes and the other exhibits as is. Hell, add the kids educational building and leave the rest as it was - and particularly don't cut off all those paths! Don't even get me started on my thoughts on the path from the bistro to the lion park getting blocked off... Okay, rant over.
An episode of Zoo Family (episode 8, with a young Kylie Minogue) has a scene shot by the hippos, and interestingly it is as you describe it, but actually not at all how I remembered it. After seeing it, I very, very vaguely remember the enclosure, but never would have without seeing it. What I was remembering in my post was even less impressive. Much smaller, with each individual hippo enclosure being barely more wide than a hippo (a hippo literally would not have been able to turn around), the sides of which were dark green metal (not the rock walls that were at MZ exhibit), and wasn't covered in. While I would have sworn up and down what I was remembering was this was at Melbourne Zoo, having now seen the actual old hippo exhibit in the show, I bet my memory is of a different zoo. At best guess probably Dubbo's Western Plains Zoo. It's been interesting to watch some episodes of ZF and see just how much my memory of the zoo in the 80's are actually colored by how the same areas looked in the 90's. For example, I would have never remembered (and still don't really) there was a gorilla nursery open to the public, even though I bet we went into it to see Mzuri.
I could not agree more. I HATE that they demolished the old lion park. It is a perfect example of "build new for old" attitude without any new inspiration or improvement on the old. The old lion park was larger, perfectly adequate (especially if you merged the wild dog and lion exhibits) and could have lasted decades longer and been massively improved by just adding some glass windows. It's not nostalgia, the old lion park was a better exhibit for people and lions. The new design also, as you said, blocked off a major thoroughfare through the zoo from the bistro and along with Growing Wild isolated a huge area of the zoo into a no-go zone.
I can remember when the wild dog exhibit was created by cutting the lion exhibit into two. The argument was that the entire lion park was too big for the lions.
Absolutely! I miss the old elephants enclosure - that's nostalgia. I miss the old ape grottoes (going to see the gorillas was probably my favorite thing to do once we got to the zoo) - that's nostalgia, lemur island is pretty well done. I miss the old seal pool - that's nostalgia, I was really impressed with Wild Sea when I first saw it and have enjoyed it every time I've been back - it's definitely an improvement. Lion Gorge - that's a head scratcher for me, and has nothing to do with nostalgia. I've read the accolades that the Lion Park got in the 60's when it was constructed, and frankly all that still held true when they demolished it as far as I am concerned. I don't think I've seen a more impressive lion enclosure at any zoo I've been to in Australia or the US. Melbourne Zoo always had everyone beat in my mind, even 50 years later. Sure, maybe it looked like it was maybe a bit dated, but was still the best way to view lions hands down. Either on my visit to the zoo right before moving (2009) or first trip back (2013) I could tell it's days were numbered as a lot of the foliage on the African Wild Dog side was cleared out. - I could tell something was up. I was pretty shocked the next time I returned and saw Lion Gorge for the first time. As seems par for the course, my reaction was a lot of walking through vegetation without seeing an animal (or a viewing area). Nothing to see at the glass window. While the inside viewing area eventually gave a half decent view of the lions, it was incredibly noisy (a complaint I've read elsewhere here) and not that pleasant of an experience. I've stood on the old bridge with plenty of roaring kids, no problem. A bunch of screaming kids inside an echo-ey closed room - eh. Second time seeing it (last year) the inside area was closed to a group, so no lion viewing at all that trip. Then last month was much as the first time, really loud and not the greatest view of lions from inside (and none outside). My daughter didn't care for the volume levels ("too loud Dad!") despite my wanting to show her the lions, so we were out of there pretty quickly. Such a subpar experience to the old lion park (which probably played a decent part in making lions one of her dad's favorite animals). The other thing I noticed this time is that it seems (or at least feels) like the lions have less space with the new enclosure. So I'm not sure who wins with this new enclosure. It's definitely a disappointment to have gone from a world class lion exhibit to a "meh" one. The other head scratcher for me is that I've since learned that the old lion park was heritage listed, yet it could be de-listed and demolished. I have been equally underwhelmed by the section past here also. I'm not sure what the point of the new undercover viewing section of the snow leopard enclosure is. While not bad, I don't see it adds anything to what this enclosure was when it was bears. On both visits, we've seen no animals in the redone big cats section, other than a Tasmanian devil at the tail end on this latest visit (though even that paled in comparison to our amazing Tasmanian devil experience at Healesville a week prior). Probably because MZ seems so low on big cats these days, which is a bummer. This area seems "Growing Wild"-ish to me - a new "zone" that dissects a bunch of the old walking paths that herds people one way, without a lot to see in the way of actual animals. Not to be super negative or anything. Did I mention I was/am impressed with Wild Sea?
Variations on this observation are common among first-time visitors to Melbourne Zoo. I don’t think I’ve been to another significant urban zoo where it’s possible to do so much walking about without seeing animals.
