If that is the case then the lion-taileds because of their critical status in the wild should be sent back to the SSP/EEP they came from or be incorporated into the Indian Subcontinent programme (by Arignar Anna ZP/Mysore Z).
.........and so another interesting and endangered primate species will be "phased out" (i.e. lost to the region) because it's no longer fashionable. It's becoming a long and melancholy list.
regarding the animals being wasted to a breeding program, its worth remembering that: its likely that the 1.5 LT macaques in australia originated from surplus of either the SSP or EEP. thus the genes are quite possibly represented already in other regions and if so its likely that the animals have been offered abroad and rejected. this is a common reality with a lot of australian exotic zoo stock. they came from other, bigger regions surplus. may not be the case. but it may well be why they are destined for tasmania rather than internationally.
Or another point would be to keep these Lion-tailed Macaques going which are Endangered and bring in some new bloodlines for the group instead of trying to bring in another species which appears to be very hard to obtain in this country
I couldn't agree more, Mark. We bemoan the fact that we can't have a larger range of ungulates in this country; so why don't we become a stronghold of species that we CAN import without much trouble, such as small cats and primates. I know that I've probably harped on this before, but having been a keen zoo supporter in Australia for the past six decades, I'm sick and tired of seeing species brought in to the Aussie zoo scene, usually with much trumpeting, only to see them become "unfashionable" after a decade or two and be abandoned in favour of the latest "must haves".
There is something intrinsically curious with respect to ARAZPA/ZAA acquisition/phase out policies. The rationale behind most new imports escapes me as long as populations of species imported previously after an initial interest and incremental growth are then allowed to be phased ... off. It sometimes seems more a fad/trendy thing to import something new - which is not guaranteed to ever materialise in numbers realistically - over species that are already being managed and - without any determined effort to acquire new genetic material - are then allowed to die out (naturally).
It was always the intention (at least over 10 years ago) that the Lion-tails would be expanded as a population, but no other zoos beyond Adelaide and Melbourne would put up their hands. Of course Perth had the cresteds and Taronga had their long-tails, so it would require the major zoos to commit to more then one species of macaque. There were two other issues - Herpes A and the inability to obtain more individuals from abroad. With all these factors in mind, lion-tails were neutered to prevent inbreeding and then we are stuck with aged non-breeding animals. Yet again a sorry state of species mismanagement by the ASMPs to leave Australasia with a paltry collection of exotics.
That is not entirely justified: It is not species mismanagement, it is failure to commit to Species Coordinator recommendations by individual zoos that do not follow these in already established conservation breeding programmes (which eventually dooms them to failure in a SPB prone zoo assoc. region). SPB=small population biology Somehow, - well that is how I feel - the species family TAGs need to take a stand on this. It is imperative that a credible conservation breeding policy be developed in the light of all those - admittedly to us EU/US folk - curious Biosecurity laws and quarantaine where families like primates can be relatively easily managed. Even hoofstock, given any political will - cause that is were it usually goes wrong (viz the lack of political will IPCC/COP15 in Kobenhavn vs scientific understanding/rationale of the climate change/biodiversity loss issue) - could be more effectively managed. Personally, I would say ... 4 proposed main foci: Australian native fauna/flora, Indian Subcontinent fauna/flora, S.E. Asian wildlife and S.African + central Congo basin wildlife. And to that focus all acquisition policies - in close cooperation with government. This could be realistic - given that logistically all foci land areas are closest to Australia/NZ region. Some public pressure/advocacy viz the political machines be called for to really develop a credible conservation breeding/education policy in Australia/NZ region. Well, that is my 15 cents of fame ... (shoot me if you can .... LOL)!!!!!
is melbourne getting Francois langurs? Horay!!!!! i love them! but where from taronga? But losing a endangered species isn't a fantastic thing even if there going to be replaced by another. If melbourne really wanted to im sure that it could make it's next big project making a fantastic primate center or something similar. werribee could focus on the african species and melborne could keep the south american and asian species also are there plans for any species of primate to be bred? or another species that will be bred soon?
Mate, I hate to dent your enthousiasm ... Mark was being sarcastic there! . Other than that: any of my Aussie mates care/like to comment on my assessment?
oh ok would they ever consider getting any? and i will comment i think that proper breeding programs are needed and i agree that the focus areas you said are good but would the zoos actually set up proper breeding programs from public pressure when the public that are pressuring them is a relativly small amount of people? and could someone explain why the laws on importing exotic animals are so tight? i mean the only really big bodies that will keep importing exotic animals are the zoos!
if i may answer mark. i guess it comes down to this. firstly, their javan pair must either die or be placed in another zoo to create space. secondly, melbourne must source and import a new pair, or individual langur. considering taronga can't even find a second pair - i think its safe to say it'll be years off.
Thanks Phoenix, I hope they are a very long lived species if thats the case, As another member pointed out yesterday why cant we stick with the group of Dusky Langers we now have at Adelaide zoo at least they are breeding and just build on this group
Yes Mark, that would seem like a more realistic option to me. 1) I can argue with anyone who claims cannot import as can not and will not are rather infamous intertwinned bros ... so to speak (LOL). This only infers there is no political will to do so and sadly most Australian exotic species programmes will go down the drain if this all-pervasive political correctness/ rationale cum philosophy continues. It is just not in the interest of running any exotic species programme. 2) In Thailand/Burma/Malaysia the wildlife trade remains open to dusky langurs and quite a few confiscees might end up in zoos. So, a source population would not be an issue and it would extend the in situ arm of ARAZPA/ZAA, the region or whatever .... Macaques and primate disease. 1) Whereas herpes A/B are indeed major zoonotic diseases with intraspecies hopping and a major health concern for humans, the very risk of humans contracting it is rather low. If not, I would challenge anyone to come up with statistics and that Herpes A/B show up big time in relation to common diseases like malaria, TB, polio, smallpox. Where are those scientific and cited papers? 2) If you are SO worried about a neglible animal disease risk then any primate is NO GO as most prosimians have had positive exposure to HIV, herpes et cetera et cetera. I personally view this whole zoonotic/vet debate beyond the pale and not based upon diligent science, it is pure emotion. K.B.
