Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Al, 2 Jan 2008.
guys. who was fighting with the monkey in the video. whats the go? did this happen recently?
Sun the combination was stopped because the exhibit was knocked down to make room for something else and the tree kangaroos new exhibit isn't big enough for echidnas.
on the last video a young Silvered leaf monkey was killed by Asian small-clawed otters. I don't know when did it happened exactly, but not recently...approximately one year ago.
I would like to ask your opininons about an idea of mixing african elephants and rock hyraxes in the same enclosure. As far as I know this coexisting has not tested already, but I think this possibility deserves some attention. For example some zoo (like Budapest Zoo and Zoo Dvur KralovÃƒÂ©) exhibit these mammals in the same house side by side, but not in the same enclosure. Theirs evolutionary relationship is very astounding for the most of the zoo visitors, and this coexisting would rather demonstrate theirs relatedness. So this idea is not only based on the essential requirement that species which exhibited together should spring from a same continent (and the best solution from the same habitat), but would have an extra educational value, too. I think hyraxes would have some "mini-kopjes" on the outside area, the main rock near to the visitor pathway. They would have acces to the whole area, but presumably they stay near theirs kopjes (in the same way in Bronx ZooÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Baboon Reserve). Certainly mixing these species bring up some problems, like fencing the enclosure, but after a detailed construction and elaboration it might be solvaible. And some other attention for the visitorsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ aspect, like cretaing a wiewing possibility which would allow the visibility to the inside of the "kopjeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s life". Certainly I know that hyraxes easily escape from the not appropriate-fenced paddocks. And some additional species also would live in this mixed exhibits, such as ungulates or monkeys. Probably it is worth to mentioned the dwarf mongooses (not the meerkats, because they might be dangerous for the hyrax cubs, thinking just their mixing in Basel). Certainly not all species together what I have mentioned above. My mind this would be a very interesting and educational-purposed mixed-species enclosure for zoos which not have several hectars area for housing their elephants. Not to detail further Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ temporarily thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s allÃ¢â‚¬Â¦
So does anybody have information about elephant-hyrax mixed-species exhibit? If not, what do you think about it?
I think elephant-hyrax mix was not tried before, but I am very much for. However, rocks should be high enough to let the hyrax live outside elephant reach. I guess curious and persistent elephant can "guard" hyrax for hours at a time.
I think monkeys (baboons) are succesfully mixed with Africans in Holland and deer and blackbuck with Asians in Heidelberg.
BTW - here is some link with more ideas:
Hyraxes are good jumpers and climbers; most of the current elephant exhibits wouldn't contain them.
Keeping hyraxes close to elephants is a good idea to illustrate the degree of "kinship". However, I'd rather suggest not mixing these two together in one exhibit; the combination of say, klipspringer, dwarf mongoose and cape hydrax in a kopje exhibit with African Bush elephants in the background might be more attractive to many visitors-and easier to maintain...
Jurek, thanks for the link, it is so interesting Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
Yes, in Safaripark Beekse Bergen african elephants succesfully mixed with hamadryas baboons, but there was a cross-contamination with Salmonella typhimurium.
Here you can read more about it:
Ã¢â‚¬Â¦.And in this thread there were mentioned another mixing with elephants beforehand Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
Sun, yes, current elephant enclosures are not suitable to keep hyraxes inside the enclosureÃ¢â‚¬Â¦but these did not constucted for this reason. I was mentined that elephants-hyrax mixed enclosures would be creating in zoos which have relatively small area.
Originally I imagine that hyraxes live together some similar species that has been mentined by yourselfÃ¢â‚¬Â¦and with some additional species. Caldwell Zoo also has a mixed-exhibit with hyraxes: GuntherÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s dik dik, rock hyrax, cape teal, white-faced whistling duck, HartlaubÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s touraco, Daveta golden weavers, african grey parrot, spur-wing lapwing, great plated lizards, giant plated lizards, spur-thigh tortoises, leopard tortoises, african cichlids Ã¢â‚¬Â¦but certainly not only about the "kopje-theme" Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
But there is a really essential question: what is a better solution, to exhibit animals together only just a similar habitat origin, or over and above that if they have any other (for example evolutionary or behavioural) connection?
That has been the big debate for 160 years, hasn't it? Taxonomy won for the first century, Habitat has been winning for the past 50 or so years, but perhaps that is just the fashion.
What have you mentioned beforehand apply to firstly the general animal husbandry or the location of species in the zoo, not to mixed-species exhibits, I thinkÃ¢â‚¬Â¦
Fashion? That zoos recently have more scientific aspects in creating mixed exhibits than in the past, I would rather say the evolution of zooÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s concept, not a fashion Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
Mixed enclosure at Auckland Zoo
This is taken from the latest FoZ newsletter that I recieved the other day .....
New Arrivals .... 5 year old male Asiatic small clawed otter , ex Adelaide Zoo
The otter will join the zoos female otter , sharing an enclosure with Bonnet macaques .
Thats the exhibit I was talking about, thanks for the info..!
Two were first introduced on Monday...
Other animals that are related and share habitat are lemurs and various marmosets and tamarins and zoos have been mixing them for years.
Most European and some american zoos have viewable elephant houses don't they. So you could have hyraxes on the inside and the elephants need to go up steps or something else to get to their outdoor exhibit ande hyraxes can't get out of the indoor bit.
PAT, yes, there are lots of combinations of mixed-species exhibits in zoos which house together animals are related or spring from a same habitatÃ¢â‚¬Â¦but for example what have been mentioned by yourself (such as tamarins, and lemurs), look like very similar. The elephant-hyrax coexsisting would have a further detail: these animals are very different creatures in the general appearence, and this is the most important factor in this theme Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
Animals which look like very similarly but not related, also a good exhibiting theme, illustrate the convergent evolution with an example Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
So I think that mixed exhibits should tell interesting stories about the animals for the visitorsÃ¢â‚¬Â¦like the dwarf mongooses and hornbills cooperative behaviour in the wild Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
You kinda mantioned animals that evolved apart but are similiar. Do you mean like meerkats and prairie dogs.
I don't think any is "better". Fashion of most zoos is to teach (well, mostly entertain) about natural habitats, so animals come from similar area (well, usually continent-wide). But it is equally valid to organize exhibit to teach on other principle - behavior, evolution etc.
I once thought it would be cool to build exhibit organized about animal behavior. Showing first solitary animals, than anonymous swarms of sea anemones, mackerel, fiddler crabs and locusts, then harem groups and colonies of e.g. meerkats, weavers, tamarins and wall lizards, and ending with chimpanzees on one side and social insects and mole rats on another.
I didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t say that every mixed exhibits bad in which animals just origin from the same habitat, noÃ¢â‚¬Â¦. There are a lots of mixed-species exhibits which work very well (like the african savanna-exhibits where a lots of kind of ungulate species live together). There is no problem with this. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve just said if there are any species which have some kind of connections (which were mentioned beforehand), and there would be a possibility to mix them in captivity without problems, in my sight we would create a more proffesional exhibit with a higher educational value. So the "usually" mixed exhibits just give the information for the visitors that these animals live in the same habitat, okÃ¢â‚¬Â¦But if we (or just the exhibit itself) tell interesting story about in what way the given animals connecting each other, we would rather arouse the visitorsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ interest for the animals and the nature, too Ã¢â‚¬Â¦and this is one of the main goals in all of the zoos. So it is much more educational-based if in addition we give some extra (and interesting) information about the animals for the visitors , isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t it?
Yes, I think the same about the exhibit concept as you: there should be a theme, which is directed the the collection plans Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
Unfortunately not, because these species are not from the same continent. But there are a lots of zoos which not use the zoogeographically partitionÃ¢â‚¬Â¦so I would imagine these species side by side, but not in the same enclosureÃ¢â‚¬Â¦. Sorry, I turn off a bit from the mixed-species theme Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
Mixing species that based on theirs similarity: I didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think just for the similarity which is visible in theirsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ general apperiance, there are some further more interesting theme inside this Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ for examlpe mixing not related animals, which use the similar foodsources Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ like "insect-feeders" from the different taxons Ã¢â‚¬Â¦
I was thinking that several of the exhibits - at least in the USA - that have been mentioned here are CLRdesign projects.
So....I went to their website and had a good time looking at "Exhibits."
Click on a picture and a pop-up says a little about the project and usually has a half dozen pictures or more:
::: CLR Design Inc :::
For that matter, you may enjoy the exhibits page for The Portico Group:
The Portico Group - Projects - Zoos
Thanks Zooplantman, interesting sites!
@Zooplantman: many of the best zoo exhibits in North America are found on those two websites, although there are several projects that are found on other continents. Great source of information!
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