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Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre Monkey World news 2015-2017

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Nisha, 7 Feb 2015.

  1. Nisha

    Nisha Well-Known Member

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  2. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    I thought this one might find its way there.;) For the first time in many years a new holder in the UK will have both male(2) & female(1) Sumatran orangs. Obviously EEP may move them later on after they have been reared, but possibly there will be a future breeding pair for somewhere else in years to come?
     
  3. Nisha

    Nisha Well-Known Member

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  4. Lemurs

    Lemurs Well-Known Member

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    'Blue', the hybrid ruffed lemur in the walk-through, passed away over the weekend.
     
  5. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Any info on the chimpanzees here to be had - other than the usual name-dropping -. I would like to know how their chimpanzees fit in the wider EEP / ESB management of chimpanzees. A good many of these should be wild-caught and by way of genetic charaterisation enable them to be assigned to the specific taxon.

    The reason I ask: since 2013 the new genetic testing has been able to not just identify subspecifically the P.t. verus from West Africa, but also the other 3 taxa.

    It has already been shown that out of the 840 or so chimps characterised at least 40% is pure P.t. verus - this figure is quite considerably more than previously assigned to P.t. verus on the basis of the earlier genetics work -, with a further 5% pure P.t. schweinfurthii from Eastern Africa and a further 18% P.t. troglodytes from Central Africa. On a humbling note ..., at least 23% comprised hybrids between the three. So this problem is as significant in chimpanzees as it was in giraffe, lion ... and you name it.
     
  6. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member

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    Great way to patronise anyone who might know enough to reply!

    As most of the males are castrated and they would never release the females to the breeding programme there doesn't seem to be much point assigning them.
     
  7. elliha

    elliha Member

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    Where can one find this information? When you look at their webpage all you see is that they use castration and vasectomies as techniques of preventing births. Is it possible to now which apes are castrated and which are not? Is it just the alphas that are intact or is one or more in fact vasectomized (I know at least one of them can't be as he has fathered babies)?
     
  8. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Puzzling "conservation" practice is the word that comes to my mind with Monkey World on this particular practice with their chimpanzees.

    However, I must admit I have always had some reservations about this institution from the moment go. Their philosophy on zoo management and husbandry of great apes seems - in my humble view - rather outdated and quite a bit of out-of-sync with realities in in situ conservation or best practice in both husbandry and management of great apes in captivity.

    What may have started as real concern for great apes within the (illegal) wild animal trade has developed into a rather peculiar form of over-commercialized and anthropomorphised management of great ape species in their care. Given that they are a member within EAZA their support for regional cooperative conservation breeding programs is quite thin-on-the-ground.

    Also, their general philosophy and rather - if I may say so - belligerent stance on captivity of great apes makes it so that the sanctuary that is Monkey World itself serves no better purpose than to provide a genetic dead-end for most if not all the great apes in their care. Very little conservation breeding takes place, conservation education and public awareness is self-placatory nor are they active in any rehabilitation schemes for great apes in situ – which in my humble view given the no-hoper situation of most in the great apes in their care at the sanctuary – is what they should be doing.


    As to a perceived patronising attitude on my part ... ahum ... that leaves me a wee bit puzzled. There was certainly no harm intended on my part in in me jotting down my query over general chimpanzee population management at Monkey World. The only reason I used the notion "name-dropping" in my query was only to underline I was looking for real data on the entire MW chimpanzee population rather than any chit-chat talk of just some individuals that would leave us all none the wiser as to what subspecies and size of populations we would be looking at in Monkey World. So, if you felt offended, I am sorry you took it that way.
     
  9. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    They are still, first and foremost, a 'Rescue Centre' for needful Primates. This is how they differ from 'Zoos'(as they put it). As such I think there is no perceived aim to breed from their existing Apes, most if not all of which are contracepted in some way. Last year I overhead a keeper talk in which it was stated this was the case with the Orangutans, in order to leave space available for any future Rescue animals. (I also noticed the new indoor Gibbon Houses were very strongly built and looked like they could house larger Apes if need be at some future time.)

    So for the Bornean Orangutans and the Chimpanzee groups, they are not involved in any breeding programmes and e.g. genetically testing the Chimpanzees (whether this has been done or not) would I think be unlikely to lead to any transfers to other institutions for breeding purposes. However much you might disagree with this, it was not, nor is, the ethos for which MW was created.

    The situation with the young Orangutans currently being handraised and which came from other Zoos may be different however. These came from EEP Zoos and presumably are only 'on loan' at Monkey World until such time as they have been reared and socialised. Possibly after that they may be placed elsewhere. Time will tell on that.

    I am not sure of the exact situation with the Gibbons but believe they and all the other smaller Primates there would come under the same 'Rescue' umbrella and so unlikely to become involved with any breeding projects or moves.
     
  10. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member

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    I have a feeling the Woolly Monkeys might be an exception, as I think they do breed those. Considering how precarious the taxon is in European collections it would be near to a sin for them to breed them but *not* involve themselves with the overall European population.
     
  11. Brum

    Brum Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression that the gibbons (or at least some of them) were also breeding and were part of the EEP. I've only got vague memories of this and I'm fairly certain this was mentioned on an earlier episode of Monkey Life.
     
    Last edited: 31 Mar 2015
  12. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member

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    The gibbon situation is far from clear-cut. They were breeding golden-cheeked gibbons, most of them are from the pet trade or via Taiwan. One came from a zoo, LA if I remember correctly. However they have mentioned possibly returning the young golden-cheeked gibbons to Vietnam where they have an in situ rehabilitation/release programme. They have paired two of their golden-cheeked gibbon offspring but I don't know if they intend to breed from them.

    In old Monkey Business programmes they said the siamang gibbons were part of the breeding programme but then they vasectomised the young male and stated that they wanted to keep him there for the rest of his life. Sasak was obtained from Dublin (I think) as a companion for the male when both the female and offspring died.
     
  13. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member

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    They are breeding woolly monkeys and have transferred some in and out in recent years. They do however accept that the zoo population is too small and going nowhere genetically long-term and many are hybrid. They are however learning a lot about husbandry of this sensitive species.
     
  14. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member

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    They were breeding Bornean orangutans until recently but as most of them were boys and they are not keen to move them on they have now said they won't breed any more.
    The nursery orangutan babies may well be moved on at some point.

    Monkey World's only claims to be involved in chimp conservation have been helping with in situ chimp rescue centre(s) and involving themselves in work to discourage smuggling from the wild e.g. by allowing governments to confiscate chimps by providing them somewhere to go. They have never claimed their chimps are themselves part of conservation/breeding programmes as Pertinax says. They are chimps who had a terrible start in life and have now been given a home with their own species.
     
  15. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member

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    Probably I was just ready to take offence because I have a long memory and remember your past rudeness to newbies who posted naively about Monkey World in their enthusiasm and comments about in blocking MW threads due to their poor quality.
     
  16. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    That was pretty much the gist of the talk I heard. I hope the three Sumatran youngsters at least will still in due course be used in the wider Zoo breeding programme. As they aren't rescued animals or born to rescue animals, and MW are really only caretaking them, I think it is quite likely.
     
    Last edited: 31 Mar 2015
  17. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member

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    Monkey World....

    Sorry to hear about the old hybrid Ruffed Lemur, survivor of the old Durrell hybrid stock. Does anyone know how old this animal was? I'm thinking thirty ish?
     
  18. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member

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    I think she was 26. She's been the only one left for quite a few years.
     
  19. OrangePerson

    OrangePerson Well-Known Member

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    Woolly monkey born to Yarima last week. Sex as yet unknown.
     
  20. monkeyarmy

    monkeyarmy Well-Known Member

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    I saw that this morning, beautiful.