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Most recent Patagonian (Southern) Sealion UK birth?

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by johnstoni, 15 Mar 2010.

  1. johnstoni

    johnstoni Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know when this was?

    I find it strange that this wonderful species has been maintained in the UK for so long with so little breeding, compared to other pinnipeds.

    Was the last birth really at Curraghs or have Twycross or Dudley had pups in the last 10-15 years?

    I'm also confused as to why there is no bull at Colchester.
     
  2. Bele

    Bele Well-Known Member

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    The pair that were at Penscynor bred several times but none of the young survived . I am not aware of any births at Twycross or Dudley .
     
  3. John Dineley

    John Dineley Well-Known Member

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    I have this feeling in the back of my mind that Alton Towers had a pup when they had sea-lions many years ago. Ironically I know of a least two successful births of Patagonians in Europe last year and they were to animals working in circus! The pups are now both independent and doing well so there really seems no reason for zoos not to breed them.
     
  4. tomzoo123

    tomzoo123 Well-Known Member

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    Twycross have a bull and a female which I know for definate. Are they both capable of breeding does anyone know?
     
  5. johnstoni

    johnstoni Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like the only birth for many, many years must have been the one at Curraghs. It seems strange that Twycross don't breed them as they are (or were) the European Studbook holder for this species.
     
  6. zoogiraffe

    zoogiraffe Well-Known Member

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    I`m pretty sure Twycross had a birth in 2008 that didn`t survive will try to find my annual report for the year and confirm that.
     
  7. kiang

    kiang Well-Known Member

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    I can confirm that ZG, i got the annual report a few weeks ago.
     
  8. johnstoni

    johnstoni Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what the issue is with this species in the UK.....it seems strange that the only really modern facility is keeping an all-female group (not that the Dudley, Twycross, and Edinburgh pools are not up to scratch).
     
  9. Gavin123

    Gavin123 Well-Known Member

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    Is the modern facility your reffering to colchester? Is strange they don't have a male or are currently trying to breed them. Does anyone know what happened to the large male they used to have in the old pool? i believe his name may have been Pat.
     
  10. johnstoni

    johnstoni Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is Colchester. They spent considerable money on a new exhibit, and acquired more sea lions, but then have been without a male since the opening of the exhibit. Odd. Unless they are waiting for Twycross studbook holder to allocate an animal....
     
  11. Devi

    Devi Well-Known Member

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    Is the dudley pool substandard because they're not allowed to change it? Or have they just not bothered? It really isn't a nice place for the animals to be, they just swim round and round, a little extra depth would do wonders, as would some more width.
    Also, I'm led to believe that the current trio are pretty elderly, so I'd assume couldn't breed even if they wanted to.
     
  12. EvilKittie

    EvilKittie Well-Known Member

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    you are correct about the pool, Orry the male is of breeding age, im not sure about the females tho, but they did come from drayton manor
     
  13. John Dineley

    John Dineley Well-Known Member

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    I believe there are planning issues with a number of exhibits at Dudley. The current sea lion pool was - believe it or not - the pool that 'Cuddles' the whale lived in when she moved from Flamingo Park; they raised the pool sides to make the pool deeper and ultimately the council made them return it to it's original state. The pool site is part of the moat area of Dudley Castle which may have a bearing on the planning issue.

    The zoo, then owned by Scotia Leisure put the whale up for sale but it sadly died before this could happen; the animal had a long-term gastro-intestinal problem which probably wasn't helped on moving it from Flamingo Park.

    I haven't been to Dudley for some time but the sea lion pool doesn't look that bad - more area is always a nice idea but depth really isn't that important for these animals as long they can swim okay. I have seen a number of zoos waste money on giving sea lions deep pools and the money to construct them would be better spent on giving them more swimming area.

    As far as breeding is concerned sea lions tend to go on breeding to quite an old age to be honest.
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2010
  14. Devi

    Devi Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they don't need it, I don't know enough about them to say. However I've been to a few places though, Marineland Mallorca comes to mind, that have quite deep pools and although those are californian sealions which may be different, they seem to enjoy diving right to the bottom and they seem to interact with each other more, playing and rolling, it helps that they have toys there though I suppose.
    Maybe dudleys lot need a boomer ball?
     
  15. John Dineley

    John Dineley Well-Known Member

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    Having a closer look at the pictures the sea lions pool could have been the pool the dolphins were in at the time that 'Cuddles' was there. In any event, 'Cuddles' pool was in the moat area and could have been the location of the old seal pool. Both now illegal and inadequate for cetaceans.
     
  16. Devi

    Devi Well-Known Member

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    I believe the sea lions pool, which is actually 2 small pools joint, once housed cuddles on one side and dolphins on the other, I may be wrong though. To the right of it is the duck pond and penguin pool, neither of which seem to be the right pool, and the left side used to go into a small stream I think? But is currently gibbons. It's fairly sloped there so I can't see that it would be a pool either.
     
  17. Maguari

    Maguari Never could get the hang of Thursdays. Premium Member

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    This is correct - the whale and dolphins were either side of the bridge; the sea lions now have access under the bridge making both pools into one exhibit.
     
  18. John Dineley

    John Dineley Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that. Yes indeed you can see it on Google Maps. Need to pay Dudley another visit at some point.

    Dudley Zoo
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2010
  19. Bele

    Bele Well-Known Member

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    Patagonian Sealions at Twycross Zoo

    The following is extracted from Annual Reports 1987 onwards .

    The Zoo had a pair at the start of 1987 . I imagine they replaced their previous Californian sealions with these some time in the 1980's . The original Sealion Pool was rather basic , the current enclosure opened in 1989 .

    Skin and eye problems , treated with antibiotics and more vitamins , were reported in 1987 . In 1988 1 died ( presumably the male ) with a pair arriving .

    In 1994 the male was treated with cortisone after a period of fasting , this continued into 1995 and he died at the end of October , this was unfortunate as a pup was born in July 1995 but died from crushed ribs and liver after being carried inappropriately by the mother .

    A new pair arrived from Karlsruhe in 1996 increasing the group to 1.3 . This male died in October 1999 after problems with fasting , a female died in 2000 . A proven breeding female arrived from Landau in 2001 plus a young male from Emmen . In 2004 two females died .

    In 2008 a female arrived from Madrid , a male birth did not survive and a female died . I do not know if the new or old female gave birth and also which one died . At the end of 2008 there were 1.1 which I believe is the current status .
     
  20. johnstoni

    johnstoni Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting that - so Twycross lost a male to poor health after skin and eye problems, then a further two males due to fasting, both births resulting in infant mortality, and 4 adult females have also died? Basically the ESB holder has consumed seven adults from the European population and produced none. I plead ignorance here, maybe this is standard for many zoos with this species, only there would be no Southern Sealions in captivity if this were the case. It does seem strange to me that zoos on the continent and abroad are propping up a very poor record with this species in the UK.

    Is fasting common in captive-bred sealions? Were all these animals even captive-bred?