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Discussion in 'United States' started by gerenuk, 20 Oct 2010.

  1. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    Yep, that's a correct number. I had a friend visit last summer and he paid extra to touch and feed the belugas and he counted at least 45. However, he said it was virtually impossible to get an exact total because they were all jammed together and constantly in motion. I've never visited the establishment, but this site mentions 51 belugas and claims that about half of them were captured from the wild in Russian waters. The article also says that "another 33 have died at the facility":

    Belugas at Marineland | The Whale Sanctuary Project | Back to Nature.
     
  2. Hyak_II

    Hyak_II Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Yup. They have the single largest collection of beluga whales in the world, and also more captive bred whales at one facility then in the rest of North America combined.
     
    Last edited: 16 May 2021
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  3. nczoofan

    nczoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yep. Marineland has about that amount across 2 complexes. Each has only 3 pools, and one of those pools if for their sole orca. I believe the complex without the orca has the vast majority of the whales. Its not ideal especially given that the facility is basically incapable of separation of newborns and their mothers due to a lack of separation pools. But this is Marineland ain’t exactly known for its animal welfare. Cough, Walrus :oops:
     
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  4. Hyak_II

    Hyak_II Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Actually they are in fact fairly capable of separation. Currently, all of their males older than about 5 years and a handful of immature females are housed at their friendship cove complex, which consists of one massive main pool and a smaller, separate shallow area. Their orca has access to the other main pool. There is one more smaller "main" pool that also has a separate holding area, this one is a flex pool, but mainly/exclusively used for the Belugas the past few years.

    Arctic cove consists of three pools, two large and one smaller. This is where all the females and young animals are housed.

    They also house animals in their show stadium, although this is limited to 2-5 animals at a time.
     
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  5. NAIB Volunteer

    NAIB Volunteer Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Yeah, if you really want to ruin your day, there are plenty of investigate articles documenting not only beluga mistreatment, but a wide variety of marine mammals as well. Before Canada's import ban a few years ago, Marineland frequently purchased belugas from Russian drive hunts (the type of hunts Georgia Aquarium originally petitioned NOAA to import). Not sure how genetically pure these five are, so that might have been a contributing factor for NOAA's permit restricting breeding as NOAA recognizes a number of populations as genetically distinct.
     
  6. TZFan

    TZFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  7. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I've heard about Marineland's questionable standard sadly.

    I didn't know Beluga populations were determined to be distinct, though. Is it known what the other US animals are?

    ~Thylo
     
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  8. MidwestFan

    MidwestFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    The majority of the US beluga population is from original stock collected in Canadian waters. There was a previous import of some belugas from Marineland in Canada, and those whales are probably from stock out of Russian waters or hybrids. It doesn't appear that the US is managing them as separate populations.
     
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  9. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    All well and good is a somewhat controversial subject to be delving into. I am sure that some forumsters might have different opinions in terms of animal welfare when these individuals are now in human captive care and husbandry. I am not saying anything beyond it is OK to disagree here.

    Having said that can you inform us in what way North American collections and in this very case Mystic Aquarium have beluga from which distinct and discrete populations now?

    How is that situation replicated across other aquariums and zoos across the North American continent?
     
  10. NAIB Volunteer

    NAIB Volunteer Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    AZA manages all belugas as the same. NOAA and other US Agencies recognize separate groups as sub-populations. That's what I was saying when it came to different groups.
     
  11. csartie

    csartie Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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  12. NAIB Volunteer

    NAIB Volunteer Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  13. csartie

    csartie Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    This would be Havok, born to Secord and Orion or Tuktoyaktuk. Only four days before his sixth birthday. Very tragic loss all the way around.
     
  14. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    No doubt will light a fire under the AR lobby who fought so hard to prevent the import.

    ~Thylo
     
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  15. nczoofan

    nczoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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  16. NAIB Volunteer

    NAIB Volunteer Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Dang, this is very unfortunate. I personally was hoping this transfer would pave the way for additional transfers out of the abysmal conditions in Marineland, but seems like that won't be the case if this additional whale dies. I'm perplexed by the narrative of some (animal welfare activists and politicians) saying that transferring these individuals from Niagara to Mystic is traumatic, especially considering cetaceans are transfered all the time in the US at greater distances with little issue. It sadly makes sense that these five whales have (or had) underlying conditions which are now coming to light with better medical care.
     
  17. nczoofan

    nczoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I think we all believe Mystic is giving these whales the best care possible, yet one must ask what really is the condition of the whales at Marineland (which has been the opposite of transparent). I know they've done great at breeding belugas, yet the facility has so many troubling allegations that at a certain point become impossible to ignore. At least Mystic is doing there best to be transparent about the current situation, yet after this situation I feel the rest of the zoological community will likely isolate Marineland and there current beluga will have to be phased out on site.
     
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  18. NAIB Volunteer

    NAIB Volunteer Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I'd agree that Mystic certainly is being transparent and also trying to get out ahead on any future narrative by announcing this animal is sick.

    I would also say, I don't think Marineland is particularly good at breeding - i.e., have facilities favorable for breeding, have well-renowned staff/ experts - I just think by default they have so many calves because they have so many adult whales. But like you mentioned, they'll eventually end up being phased out on site in Ontario since the breeding ban has taken effect in Canada.

    Marineland was AZA's only viable option to sustain the captive beluga population in the US, so the remaining 30 odd some whales will eventually be phased out within the next twenty years, short of some miracle, sadly.
     
  19. NAIB Volunteer

    NAIB Volunteer Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    The female beluga who is ill seems to be improving according to an article dated 12 September. Health of Mystic Aquarium whale improving

    An excerpt from this article (Whale of a Mess: Beluga Dies, Another Falls Ill at Mystic Aquarium — ecoRI News) states that Marineland of Canada's animal care committee "has recommended that in addition to preventing further breeding, the aquarium 'increase available space for the existing Beluga Whales through the reduction of the Beluga Whale population at Marineland … through partnerships with appropriate institutions, such as the Mystic Aquarium, further research, conservation and education efforts in relation to the Beluga Whale.'" Of course this was during the permitting process in 2018-2019 before the high profile death of Havok, a male who died after transfer in August.
     
  20. MidwestFan

    MidwestFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Facebook update from 9.20.2021, the situation is still pretty touch and go, as the beluga has had a setback:

    "While optimistic in our last update, the ill female beluga’s health changed direction. Her white blood count is below normal levels again, and she is showing gastrointestinal discomfort and constipation. Our veterinarians and animal care experts continue to give 24-hour care and their all to her. We hope that this is just an obstacle in her recovery and will continue to update our supportive community on her condition."