Gorillas were suggested about eight years ago, but at the time I was told it would take three years so it was not being pursued. Some of this year's publicity mentioned "special guests in the zoo". These did not materialise, but I do know what they were and from where they were coming - if the place in question decided to send them that is (its staff had inspected the accommodation that would be used). When I was told about this I was sworn to secrecy, so I shall not say any more.
It sounds to me as if this is a confusion between the chimps going to Blair Drummond and the gorillas coming up from Bristol and going into the old chimp house.
Is this the plan?, to move the gorillas from Bristol whilst their indoor housing is being is being redeveloped?
I agree. Keeping them at the zoo must involve some problems, but the gorillas continue with their familiar keepers, diet and so on. Didn't ZSL keep their gorillas off-show but on-site while the bulk of the Sobells was demolished and Gorilla Kingdom built? Alan
Just 'Zaire' and 'Bongo/'Bobby' (they sent the two old females back to Eastern Europe from where they came) They spent several months in one of the Hospital cages. Again they talked about moving them temporarily elsewhere(e.g. Zaire was going to go to Belfast) but they stayed on-site instead.
However, although I have not seen the size/quality of the hospital cage enclosures at London, Zaire emerged having pulled out much of her body hair and continued to engage in this for some time after. I don't remember her doing this before. Of course, there's no way of telling whether she'd have done this if moved elsewhere. As for the mangabeys at Flamingo land....it seems a shame to give them this space temporarily (assuming it is superior to the existing enclosure, they may turn out to prefer the seclusion/cover by not using the outdoor area of the new exhibit), if they settle here well I would hope they would not just chuck them back in the old cage when/if they decide to replace the chimpanzees with a new species. They haven't done as well as many other groups, perhaps an issue with the females (an older animal, has she reared any young before?/ a hand-reared animal). Hopefully they will do well in the new enclosure and be allowed to remain here, perhaps with some new individuals brought in to kick-start breeding.
I was going to add that they probably hated living in the Hospital. Some of the dens have small outdoor runs and I presume(but don't know) that they were kept in one of those but the space would have been very limited. afaik 'Zaire' starting plucking herself during the periods when there was no male in the group, from around the time 'Jomie' died. She had never done it before that. Each time there was a new male she stopped again and regrew her coat. If she was plucked after the hospital period that also indicates she found it stressful. But as you say, is that worse than transferring the animals back and forth between zoos? Incidentally, I wonder if 'Zaire' is plucking herself again now?- once again there has been no male for about five months now.
The article on their site states the mangabeys are in the present enclosure for a 'holiday'. I inferred from this that they may have been moved here temporarily.
Flamingoland Mangabey history. I was reading through the S/D earlier (Thank you to Nisha for the link) and was very interested in the Flamingoland Mangabey history. The old male ('Joe') arrived from Paradise WP in 1995. He was originally born at Barcelona and was only the second birth at Barcelona. The female ('Calpurnia') was originally from Roma and was born in 1993. She arrived in 2001 and Flamingoland had 1.1. They first bred in 2002 (1.1 dns), two offspring were born but dns. They bred 1.0 in 2004, the only successful offspring was 'Sophia' born in 2005. 'Sophia' was the first Mangabey to be born at Flamingoland, although she had to be hand reared. In 2007, 'Joe' died and a new male 'Galen' arrived from Valencia in 2008. 'Galen' was born at Paris, which I think bred the most (successful) Mangabeys. At the moment Flamingoland have 1.2, with no more births.
I wonder why they haven't bred since the new male arrived. The homebred female must be seven years old now so is adult also. Maybe there is a problem- infertile male? desocialised female? (just guesses) The other two Zoos within G.B(and Ireland) that have this species(White-naped) are ZSL and Dublin. Maybe an exchange within these groups would be beneficial.
This is interesting, I visited the park in around 1992/1993, and there were 1.1 'Sooty' Mangabeys in a cage up by the bears, facing towards the bottom of the hill and backing onto an identical cage holding lynx (and facing the bear enclosure). The keeper told me the male was a 'bully' and they had to feed them separately. Others had suggested I had seen 'Joe' during my visit, but these were clearly different animals. As the White-naped/collared mangabey is an endangered eastern subspecies of the Sooty mangabey, I have long wondered if the European population of 'Sooty' mangabeys (pre-1990s) were an entirely different population, of animals from the nominate race (or generic unspecified stock). Does anyone know? If this is true, then where did the current European population of C. atys lunulatus (white-crowned/naped/collared) originate from?
I don't know about Europe generally, but in the UK the Sooty Mangabeys held at Chester in the 1960's-80's era and the group in the Sobell Pavilions at London(some of which initially came from Chester) were the unmarked 'uniform grey' Sooty Mangabeys- presumably of the nominate race. After the ZSL ones went to Penscynor and subsequently disappeared (it now seems likely they were euthanased when it closed- what a silly waste) there could have been a period when there were few, if any, Mangabeys in the UK. I believe Dublin were the first to acquire a small group of White-naped, I think these came also from Barcelona and then later Flamingo Pk and ZSL. The founders(1.1 or 1.2) of the current successful ZSL group I think must have come from Europe also. I imagine someone will know where from.
Do you know if Penscynor housed this species until they closed? Slightly off-topic, but I found this link interesting, if only because one of the photos suggests Penscynor had Mandrills, which I was previously unaware of: Penscynor Wildlife Park. Neath - Derelict Places
Penscynor did have a large number of Sooty Mangabey up until the end but they 'disappeared' . They did also have Mandrills . I prepared an article on the Primates of Penscynor for the Bartlett Society Journal a couple of years ago . A large variety of species were exhibited over the years .
Sorry its off topic but can anyone describe what the pictures (of the closed penscyner mentioned above) show in terms of what cages they were and what they held? Also does anyone have any pics of penscyner when it was open, particularly the chimp accomodation
