OstrichMania's Fantasy Zoo Project - Advice Thread

Alright, let's cut right to the chase. I have always wanted to do something of this type, whether that be my time on Zoo Decisions, Zoo Community or other threads. I've always had a knack for making, creating and managing a fantasy zoo. I've always wanted to do one of my own in my own separate thread, but I've never picked up the courage to do one.

That hasn't changed much over time. This thread isn't an announcement saying I will create a fantasy zoo, in fact this may not even be in development. However, I still thought it would be necessary to create this thread just in case I decide to do one, whether that just be one exhibit, one area or a complete zoo. The main purpose of this thread is for me to have a place to put all of my ideas down, and get feedback from others on my progress and other ideas. I may also be asking questions on certain things here time-to-time. Map-building, for example.

Yes, this project may just fade into obscurity, and if it does, it probably means I didn't have as much passion for this as I once thought. I currently have barely anything planned out concretely, but I can give you what I have. The main idea at the moment is I would start with one exhibit. If the community and myself like it and I am alright with the process for creating it, I would continue. There probably won't be any concrete order for exhibits if I decide to continue it. One time I may do Antarctica, and the next exhibit may be on the Everglades. Yes, it may be a bit inconvenient for reading, but this is purely because I find it easier if I always look on different things.

At the moment, the idea is that I will be creating an exhibit (or perhaps area, if it needs that much room) on Southeast Asia. I don't have anything else apart from a partially-complete species list at the moment, but if you like the idea of it, feel free to leave ideas for the exhibit.

Lastly, please, if you find something wrong or want to leave an idea, please do so! I love feedback, both positive and negative. If you find an error in a species list, an animal on your mind is not on the list, an animal is unobtainable in captivity, you have an idea for an animal's exhibit, you want to suggest a way to re-organise the zoo, you want to suggest things for a menu, etc., please state it! I really like when I get truthful feedback from people, so be as harsh as you want. If you need to school me, I will get my chair!

Spoiler: Southeast Asia Species List (So far)

Asian Elephant
Prevost's Squirrel
Spotted Giant Flying Squirrel
Malayan Colugo
Pen-Tailed Tree Shrew
Bornean Smooth-Sailed Tree Shrew
Lesser Tree Shrew
Common Tree Shrew
Sunda Slow Loris
Greater Slow Loris
Western Tarsier
Proboscis Monkey
Stump-Tailed Macaque
Douc Langur
Siamang
Black-Crested Gibbon
Lar Gibbon
Moloch Gibbon
White-Cheeked Gibbon
Red-Cheeked Gibbon
Bornean Orangutan
Sumatran Orangutan
Philippine Tarsier
Spectral Tarsier
Mindoro Stripe-Faced Fruit Bat
Geoffery's Rousette Fruit Bat
Moonrat
Mindanao Moonrat
Chinese Pangolin (?)
Dhole (?)
Sun Bear
Palawan Stink Badger
Sunda Stink Badger
Greater Hog Badger
Asian Small-Clawed Otter (?)
Hairy-Nosed Otter
Common Palm Civet
Malay Civet
Binturong
Flat-Headed Cat
Fishing Cat
Marbled Cat
Sumatran Tiger
Diard's Clouded Leopard
Sumatran Rhinoceros
Javan Rhinoceros
Malayan Tapir
Sulawesi Babirusa
Sambar (?)
Anoa
Banteng
Tufted Deer
Kouprey
Temmick's Tragopan
Whitehead's Trogon
Maleo Scrub Fowl
Red Junglefowl
Crested Wood Partridge
Nicobar Pigeon (?)
Great Argus
Phillippine Eagle
Sunda Scops Owl
Feline Owlet Nightjar
Grey-Rumped Treeswift
Glossy Swiftlet
Great Hornbill
Wreathed Hornbill
Blue-Streaked Lory
Violet-Necked Lory
Salmon-Crested Cockatoo
Blue-Winged Pitta
Red Bird of Paradise
Bali Mynah
Rothschild's Mynah
Oriental Darter
Liliac-Cheeked Kingfisher
Masked Finfoot
Malaysian Rail Babbler
Sunbird
Asian Leaf Turtle
Southeast Asian Box Turtle
Big-Headed Turtle
Sunbeam Snake
Red-Tailed Pipe Snake
Burmese Python
Reticulated Python
Blood Python
Kopstein's Bronzeback Snake
Mangrove Snake
Golden Flying Snake
Sunbeam Snake
Red-Tailed Racer
Yellow-Lipped Sea Krait
Blue Coral Snake
King Cobra
Malaysian Pit Viper
White-Lipped Pit Viper
Wagler's Viper
Boulenger's Pricklenape Lizard
Flying Lizard
Sailfin Lizard
Asian Water Dragon
Common Flying Dragon
Sailfin Lizard
Hon Tre Bent-Toed Gecko
Tokay Gecko
Kuhl's Flying Gecko
Emerald Tree Skink (?)
Long-Tailed Skink
Gray's Keeled Water Skink
Borneo Earless Lizard
Komodo Dragon
Dumeril's Monitor
Water Monitor Lizard
Earless Monitor Lizard
Northern Sierra Madre Forest Monitor
Saltwater Crocodile
False Gharial
Brown Tortoise
Asian Spadefoot
Boulenger's Asian Tree Toad
Crested Toad
Wallace's Flying Frog
Long-Nosed Frog
Kinabulu Giant Red Leech
Hammerheaded Worm
Giant Dead Leaf Mantis
Asian Forest Scorpion
South Asian Tar Baby Termite
Common Castor Butterfly
Atlas Moth
Malayan Frog Beetle

Just a small note, the (?) means that I'm not sure if it would be classed as 'Southeast Asia' or not. Also, I will shortly be working on refining the species list to filter out animals that won't be available in captivity or are not in the area. For example, the Sumatran and Javan Rhinoceros won't be included in the refined edition due to their situation. If you see any other animals there that you know can't be kept in captivity or aren't creatures of Southeast Asia (i'm looking for where the majority of animals are. For example, I wouldn't include Cheetahs in a West Asian exhibit even though they are in West Asia because a majority of Cheetahs are in Africa). Also, if there are any other Southeast Asian animals I missed, let me know and I will see if I can add them.

 

After some research (mainly on here ), I have produced my first refined version of the Southeast Asia species list. This refined list will hopefully remove animals that I think most likely wouldn't be held in captivity as often as other species. This refined list only takes into account the logistics of whether the species could realistically be held in captivity, so still includes species that may not be Southeast Asian but are realistic to be held in captivity are included in this list.

Spoiler: Southeast Asia Species List: Version 2

Asian Elephant (?)
Prevost's Squirrel
Common Tree Shrew
Sunda Slow Loris
Greater Slow Loris
Siamang
Lar Gibbon
Moloch Gibbon
White-Cheeked Gibbon
Red-Cheeked Gibbon
Bornean Orangutan
Sumatran Orangutan
Dhole (?)
Sun Bear
Asian Small-Clawed Otter (?)
Common Palm Civet
Binturong
Flat-Headed Cat
Fishing Cat
Sumatran Tiger
Malayan Tapir
Sulawesi Babirusa
Sambar (?)
Anoa
Banteng
Tufted Deer
Temmick's Tragopan (Not sure, need feedback on this one).
Red Junglefowl
Crested Wood Partridge
Nicobar Pigeon (?)
Great Argus
Great Hornbill
Wreathed Hornbill
Salmon-Crested Cockatoo
Red Bird of Paradise
Bali Mynah
Big-Headed Turtle
Burmese Python
Reticulated Python
Blood Python
Mangrove Snake
Red-Tailed Racer
King Cobra
White-Lipped Pit Viper
Sailfin Lizard
Asian Water Dragon
Tokay Gecko
Komodo Dragon
Saltwater Crocodile
False Gharial
Brown Tortoise
Atlas Moth

I need some feedback, and I want to be as specific as possible so I can get the most specific and useful information I can utilize.

1. Are Temmick's Tragopans a species that would be a realistic species to have in captivity?
2. Have I incorrectly ruled out a Southeast Asian species that is in fact realistic to be held in captivity?
3. Is there any other realistic Southeast Asian species that you think are missing from this list?

I only ask for feedback because I am aiming for a zoo that is realistic, interesting and entertaining to read about. As I will admit, I am not the smartest person when it comes to realism, far from it. That is why I would prefer to get feedback from others, both so I can make the zoo more entertaining to read and so I can develop these skills for myself.

Cheers.

 

Temminck’s Tragopan are definitely ok for captivity, they aren’t rare or particularly hard to take care of. I think you could have kept in quite a few of your reptiles and inverts, but that’s your choice.

 

I had the same thoughts during selection. However, after some research in the ZooChat gallery there wasn't many results. However, I may run a second search of the reptiles and inverts on Zootierliste, as the gallery probably isn't the best resource for reptiles and inverts, as I have now learned.

 

After doing some extra research on Zootierliste, I have decided to re-instate the Asian Leaf Turtle and the Kuhl's Flying Gecko into the list. If there are any other Southeast-Asian reptiles and inverts commonly kept in captivity I have missed out, please let me know.

 

Right, here's a background of the Southeast Asia exhibit I have planned. This is purely a draft and likely will get refined and expanded so if it is missing something, please do let me know. Alright, enjoy.

The Southeast Asia exhibit has not been an exhibit with Southeast Asia at its heart for the lifespan of the zoo. The area that the Southeast Asia exhibit is currently in has previously been used by other exhibits and areas. The area was originally bought by the first owner of the zoo, Michael von Bastian. The area was originally planned to be used for a small nature reserve. However, that plan was scrapped when a pair of Cougars and a pair of Bald Eagles were imported. Von Bastian then planned for a North American complex to be in this area. This complex was in construction for 3 years, but then finally got completed. It wasn't a particularly big complex in terms of species, with the species mostly being Cougars, Bald Eagles and a group of American Black Bears who were originally exhibited in an outdated bear grotto at the entrance to the zoo. However, this complex only lasted 5 years, when a new North American complex was planned to the east side of the zoo. This lead the area to be empty for some time, but it was then refurbished again into a petting area. This was fairly unpopular however, as visitors complained that this area was too big and should've been a lot smaller than it ended up being. These complaints led to the destruction of the petting zoo. However, visitors still wanted that area to have something. However, this was overshadowed for some time because of von Bastian's death. This lead to von Bastian's colleague, Sherman Smith, taking over. Sherman was more inventive than von Bastian, and quickly drew up plans for a Southeast Asia complex in the former petting zoo area. Sherman was successfully awarded with a larger budget from the government, as Sherman also had close ties to the government and politics. This allowed him to import a large amount of species, so large in fact that the area had to be expanded to accompany all of them. At the time of completion, the Southeast Asia complex was the best quality exhibit in the zoo. However, this title would not stay for long, as Sherman had plans to take the zoo into the big leagues, developing the zoo with large financial backing.

 

After some quick research, I have managed to refine some details on the distribution of some animals. I have decided to keep the Asian Small-Clawed Otter and the Nicobar Pigeon in this complex, but I have discarded the Asian Elephant, the Dhole and the Sambar Deer from the list, due to their range being larger in other areas of Asia. If I got something wrong, please let me know.

Spoiler: Southeast Asia Species List: Version 3

Prevost's Squirrel
Common Tree Shrew
Sunda Slow Loris
Greater Slow Loris
Siamang
Lar Gibbon
Moloch Gibbon
White-Cheeked Gibbon
Red-Cheeked Gibbon
Bornean Orangutan
Sumatran Orangutan
Sun Bear
Asian Small-Clawed Otter
Common Palm Civet
Binturong
Flat-Headed Cat
Fishing Cat
Sumatran Tiger
Malayan Tapir
Sulawesi Babirusa
Anoa
Banteng
Tufted Deer
Temmick's Tragopan
Red Junglefowl
Crested Wood Partridge
Nicobar Pigeon
Great Argus
Great Hornbill
Wreathed Hornbill
Salmon-Crested Cockatoo
Red Bird of Paradise
Bali Mynah
Big-Headed Turtle
Burmese Python
Reticulated Python
Blood Python
Mangrove Snake
Red-Tailed Racer
King Cobra
White-Lipped Pit Viper
Sailfin Lizard
Asian Water Dragon
Tokay Gecko
Komodo Dragon
Saltwater Crocodile
False Gharial
Brown Tortoise
Atlas Moth

 

I feel the tragopan's range is definitely more in central Asia/the Himalayas than Southeast Asia.

 

I'll be interested to see how you group these species together for multi-species exhibits or single species exhibits and also see how you develop a breeding program around the listed animals should you choose to go more in depth, I look forward to seeing you continue with this project.

 

Thanks for your interest. I'm planning to group most of the birds in a mixed-species aviary (perhaps walkthrough, not sure on that though). I probably will develop breeding programs for species like the Sumatran Tiger, and perhaps for other species like False Gharial.

 

Last call: Are there any animals native to Southeast Asia that you believe I should include? The animals must be:

• From mainly Southeast Asia (they must have a larger range in Southeast Asia than in any other region).
• They must be a species that a zoo could realistically retrieve, maintain and perhaps breed.
• Preferably, I would like keystone or are being threatened by humans (vulnerable, endangered, critically endangered, extinct in the wild), so I can make better designs for my exhibits

 

Java Sparrow and Smooth-Coated Otter

 

After some quick research on eBird, I do agree with you. It seems like it's more common in central Asia.

I agree with both of these, so I'll add them.

 

No fish or amphibians and hardly any invertebrates? You had a fair few on the starting list.
Also, where are you going to get flat-headed cats? Considering some of the species you rejected for not being common enough, I’m surprised you left them in. I’m not stopping you entirely (I have them in my own fantasy zoo) but if you are going to include them I feel some of the other interesting species you suggested should not be discarded.
Suggestions:
- Macaques and langurs
- Porcupines
- Flying Foxes
- Ducks
- Magpies/treepies
- Finches

 

Thanks, Junkle. About your suggestions, do you mind if you mention specific species? That would mean I can research more efficiently.

About the fish, amphibians and invertebrates, I was debating whether to try and be realistic with them or not, given there isn't many sources citing whether having a certain invertebrate or amphibian species would be unrealistic. I think I will have another look at those specific groups though.

About the flat-headed cat, I included them because in the ZooChat gallery, there was a lot of zoos that kept them captive (all pictures I considered were taken pre-2014-2015), however if you are still unsure about them I can have another check to see if it is realistic.

 

Among monkeys, Crab-eating (Macaca fascicularis), Southern Pig-tailed (M. nemestrina), Tonkean (M. tonkeana), Moor (M. maura) and Crested (M. nigra) Macaques that are all reasonably common SE Asian species. There are also their species, like Pagai (Macaca pagensis), Siberut (M. siberu), Booted (M. ochreata) and Heck’s (M. hecki) Macaques that are only present in one or two zoos. There are loads of langur species, so I think it would make more sense for you to look through Wikipedia and find the species you think you like and look through the Zoochat gallery for them, although dusky (Trachypithecus obscurus) and Javan (T. auratus) are common in European zoos,
Philippine Porcupine (Hystrix pumila) is held in European zoos. Malayan Porcupine (H. brachyura) is extremely common in Asian zoos. Sunda Porcupine (H. javanica) and Thick-spined Porcupine (H. crassispinis) are present in a few Asian zoos. The Asiatic brush-tail (Atherurus macrourus) is one of my favourite porcupine species, so I am biased in suggesting it to you, but while rare it is exhibited in a few Asian places.
Bats are a huge group, so like with langurs I suggest you choose bat species you like, referencing Zoochat, ZTL etc., but Malayan Flying Fox (Pteropus vampyrus) is quite common.
I must say I hardly know anything about corvids, but the members of genera Cissa and Urocissa, Green and Blue Magpies, are some of my favourites.
I am not at home right now, so I will give you some finch and duck suggestions later once I’m home, as I have to refer to my books.
I think these would be interesting, but I you don’t to keep all of them. It would probably be excessive.

If you would like to add ‘filler’ tanks to brighten up indoor areas and increase diversity, many freshwater fish on the pet trade are SE Asian, and obtaining these would be easy. I also browse lists of herp or fish species for a particular country and look up whether it or an extremely close relative is kept anywhere. I’m afraid I am also really bad at choosing invertebrates, so I’m really sorry that I can’t give you much help, but again, the pet trade is somewhat of a reference for me, as well as, of course the Zoochat gallery.

Currently a few Asian zoos do hold the species, but I think (not sure) that like proboscis monkeys the western population never thrived (somebody please correct me if I am wrong). Considering the numerous discussions on this site on how rare they are, if a zoo like yours obtained them it would be a major event. Maybe you could make it a part of the zoos history somehow?