If unsuccessful attempts in the past leave you against pangolins in captivity, then you should also be against elephants, gorillas, and the many, many other species that did very poorly in captivity for many years that now flourish. "...nothing has been achieved except the superfluous deaths of countless pangolins" is only true if you ignore the successful keeping (if rarely breeding) animals in Asian zoos, the thriving (if not yet breeding) pairs at Leipzig, and the current American breeding program, which has produced captive bred offspring. Yes a lot of pangolins died in the initial days of the American program, and I'm not 100% on-board with how the program came to be, but the majority of the animals brought in during the last round of imports have done very well for years now, and there has been some breeding success. Offspring conceived in the wild but born in captivity have done very well as well. Pangolins are unlikely to survive in the wild without serious help and zoos will be integral to that. Captive breeding program along with ambassador animals will both boost the number of animals and lead to more donations to be put towards pangolin conservation in the wild. The fact of the matter is, progress cannot be made unless one risks the attempt. ~Thylo
The question is, how many animals still have to give their lives for these "experiments"? Zoos will not be able to save pangolins.And with successfully I mean, that the breed keeps the existing stock itself over several generations, not just single births. I think that by the time the zoos reach this goal, some species of pangolins will already be extinct. Optimus is unlikely to care about the future of these animals in zoos, despite the fact that a few zoos have already made small achievements to keep isolated animals alive longer. Yes, the first Pair of Pangolins at Leipzig zoo is doing well since 2007 and 2009, but they never bred as long as the second pair never did. So which zoo or even zoos is /are breeding pangolins sucessfully ?
Yeah, something like baboons, geladas, drills, mandrills seems like the most possible option and is being mentioned the most in zoomaniac's discussions. But those are still too small to fill the space adequately. In terms of their evacuation, I think getting them out might be a bit easier, but who knows Big outdoor enclosure being unused for 100% of opening hours? Yeah I don't see Prague's director doing that :/
Big outdoor enclosure maybe could be done/approved if pangolins would be mixed with some other calm and non-dangerous animal that would still make visitors happy. Maybe some sort of tortoise? Like Asian forest tortoise or any Indotestudo on nice green lawn.
I don't disagree with this sentiment. In my opinion, more have already died than necessary. Every single animals ever kept in captivity was an experiment. The Sumatran and Northern White Rhinoceros programs were experiments, and ones that failed in the end, but had they never been attempted everyone would have complained that no one ever tried. The Kihansi Spray Toad, Panamanian Golden Toad, Mauritius Kestrel, Przewalski's Wild Horse, American Bison programs were all experiments, and now none of those species are Extinct. Well zoos will not be able to save elephants, rhinos, gorillas, tigers, or many other species from extinction through captive breeding alone. Do you disagree with them being kept as well? It's undeniable that zoos showcasing these species to the public increases awareness of their plight and leads to a huge increase in donations. The same will be true with pangolins should the programs continue to see success. What would you rather have them do; ignore pangolins and allow them to go Extinct? Even if some species have already gone Extinct by the time the programs are self-sustaining, we will now have a few species which won't go Extinct because of that and I don't see how that's a negative. The programs are very much in their infancy so I don't know how you can judge them based on whether or not they've had several generations born already. That said, Taipei has had third generation births. As for the Leipzig pair, I don't believe the initial two were ever intended to breed. To my knowledge they were to prove that Leipzig could successfully keep them, with the plan being for an actual breeding pair to be sent to them should they keep them alive. They did manage to keep them alive, so in 2016/2017 a second pair was sent to them. No they have not bred yet, but it's also barely been a couple of years since they arrived. When I visited last year I also noted that one of the animals (I think the female but could be wrong) was missing one of its rear legs due to an injury it received in the wild, and it's possible that this hinders its ability to successfully reproduce. The Pangolin Consortium in Florida has announced several births now. One of the public US zoos has bred them a couple of times now as well, but I don't know if they've ever publicly announced that so I won't say which (though it's probably obvious if you know much about the US zoos with the species). To be honest I can. I mean the main reason the parrot has has been delayed for so long is because they've been allowing the plants time to grow, so why not build an outdoor enclosure for the increased chance of success even if people won't see them in it. They could also have the outdoor enclosure off-show and the indoor viewing on-show. ~Thylo
Well, FWIH from the staff, Prague's director doesn't really like empty exhibits, but off-show exhibit actually doesn't sound bad at all.
Um, gharials (no, tortoises and frogs don´t count) Or can they out during summer? Old gorilla house: what about bonobos? There were plans to have them, few years back (next to the lemurs, where should be Tasmania now). Gelladas and mandrills seem to be big enough for that exposition (especially gelladas living in pretty big... herds? and outdoor paddock, mostly barren, looks better suitable for them than for forest dweling apes, I pressume)
The problem with Pangolins historically has always been the diet. The article below gives further background information on the current US program U.S. zoos learn how to keep captive pangolins alive, helping wild ones
I think I saw one of the out one or two times, although when they were much smaller. I don't know if they are allowed to go outside now
When @GerbenElzinga, @KevinVar and I were there in August 2017 we were very surprised see the door opened, with an animal lying in the doorway... I haven't heard of many other people who have seen an opened door recently though! I expect they only do so on exceptionally hot days?
article on peccary birth https://www.usnews.com/news/news/ar...-mammals-chacoan-peccaries-born-in-prague-zoo
2016 masterplan map. Australia/Tasmania under construction, building of new gorilla house should start this year, construction of Arctic with bears, seals and sea birds should start then, not before gorillas are finished. Not sure about rest. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta.../1547226373683/hlavní+výkres.jpg?format=1500w
Interesting bits for me: • Enlarging area of the zoo behind the big African exhibit - exhibits for rhinos, hyena, cheetahs • Rat pavillion • unsigned exhibit next to Indonesian Jungle • "Exhibit of nocturnal animals and exotic birds" which is a very broad term
I am most curious about cat house, but there isn´t any more info about it, after all it is probably thing for more distant future. Dtto noctunarium (even if that was in older plan, I suppose) and african exhibits. Not sure about rat house... Only polar bears, gorillas, pandas (and bison stable reconstruction?) are "for sure", they were part of next five years plan I think (but I doubt they make it till 2022) rest is probably unclear. Also not sure about pandas, they will not came, so there may wouldn´t be such haste with reconstruction of that place and so maybe some other project could get priority? (Amazonia? I was really looking forward to that :/ )
Visited Prague zoo recently, couple of things to note: 1. We saw a diddy north American tree porcupine 2. An African brush tail porcupine was born 20th June. 3. No sign of the moose based on the map it seems their exhibit was empty, which is strange a s they had a young only a couple of months ago. 4. The terrarium was closed due to a new exhibit being constructed.
I think that mooses died, pretty recently, due to some ilness (someone already asked on zoo facebook). With terrarium you are just unlucky, new exposition (and with it rest of terrarium I suppose) should open this sunday.
Yes! We went to the 11am talk. One was asleep in a log in one enclosure, but the second one was pacing around looking for breakfast which I guess usually happens during the talk. This time the keeper didn't turn up so the hyena gave up and went for a lie down. Beautiful animal and our first brown hyena
Sad news about the moose. We visited on Monday but we didn't have time to visit the terrarium, so we were very sad to miss out on Wednesday.
