I think you need to actually read the posts that have been made in the thread, without the personal chip. This is exactly the thing I said earlier in the thread, where if anyone dares to ask any questions about the topic - the RSCC/the owner/the collection/whatever combination - there are immediate attempts by certain people to attack those asking the questions. Most people can discuss topics, whatever side of that topic they lie on, others prefer to just try to shut it down so that there is no discussion. Which would you prefer to be the case?
None of which changes the point i made above...listen,this is getting rather tedious but if you actually read Tetrapods comments he actually does make allegations that are rather different to opinion.And if you react to anonymity as sacrosanct beyond all else then that is indeed your "chip" just as the opposite is mine.
I never mentioned anonymity. "Sacrosanct beyond all else"? What? The only person on the thread who has said anything about being anonymous is you (literally in every one of your posts on the thread!).
Oh for gawds sake... ive made my point and now ive got things to do,but lets be honest, im boxing "blind"yet again ,for instance ive no idea who you really are, whereas we all know who Todd Dalton is(and myself).Its a bit one-sided in my view..
I agree, but still for many species it does happen and we all know how difficult the role of the TAG is and maybe their role should be enforced.
Sourcing animals from rescue centres has several advantages. At least in Asia, where I have visited several, rescue centres are typically, but not exclusively, places doing their best under difficult circumstances. The demands on them may be higher than they can support, and they usually don't have the funds to make much needed improvements or expansions. If a zoo buys animals from a centre (or establishes a financially beneficial relationship with one in exchange for occasional imports) at least four good things happen: The zoo gets a new species, which may be exciting enough to boost visitor numbers. The centre receives a nice cash injection, and frees up space to rescue more animals. The animals in question will quite likely be going to much better enclosures, although climate and diet may be issues. Depending on why the animals were in the centre in the first place, there may be a very interesting, and educational, story to be told, to the benefit of both the zoo and the visitors. As an additional maybe, if an initial pair do breed freely, other zoos may be inspired to follow suit, thus establishing the species outside its home range anyway. That last comment not withstanding, all I'm trying to show is that just because you don't expect animals to be founders, doesn't mean there is no value in importing them. (I should also point out that this is based on logic, I know nothing really about the interactions between institutions)
Thanks for your reply FunkyGibbon, my main comment would be that the relationship should be long-term and that the sanctuary or species benefit in general. The moment it becomes just animals for cash you enter a slippery slope. (Also this is a comment on the general process and not a comment on an individual institution or person).
Allegation and opinion are essentially the same thing - a belief / view / judgement formed about something that is not necessarily based on fact. I don't know what you are on about re anonyminity being sacrosanct - no one has said anything like that? I think Tetrapod makes some good points and it is interesting to hear the different viewpoints that people have... if you thing we are not allowed to discuss something because we don't all know each other personally then I'm not sure why you are a member of a message board?
Not quite; calling something an "opinion" does not imply that the bearer of said opinion is explicitly claiming that it is the truth, whilst an "allegation" would suggest this opinion - whilst unfounded or unproven - is being put forward as the truth. For instance, saying "I think that John Doe is a criminal" is an opinion, whilst without evidence stating "John Doe is a criminal" would be an allegation. In any case, we are getting rather off-topic here.
Actually you may well be right.Professionally,in another field(the music business) ive had plenty of nonsense/flack/lies from folks who are very brave behind a user name.Guess im old school.
And,finally....to draw a personal line across this one.I should say that Todd Dalton is a friend of mine.To be honest I think matters concerning a private collection shouldnt even be in this thread.
Out of interest, who was his original pair? I know he had Toni and Milli from Phnom Tamao in 2013 and Indera and Charlotte from Singapore Zoo and Cologne Zoo respectively in 2011, but I don’t know any previous to that.
Colchester's pair, Jo-Jo and Srey-Ya, both came from RSCC in 2010 although I don't know if they were the original pair. They both came to RSCC in 2007.
As MagpieGoose notes, the original pair at RSCC were rescue individuals from Cambodia which later were sent to Colchester, where they remain to this day
Ah, thank you so much for that. I actually had no idea that they had started off in the UK at RSCC - and that they have been both living together and living in the UK for quite that long.
I think, if I heard correctly, that Todd was also responsible for giving Edinburgh and Ouwehands their same sex pairs (2.0 and 0.2 respectively), but never actually kept them at his centre? Maybe I imagined that....
Interesting. Somnang and Rotana came direct from Phnom Tamao to Edinburgh. Cindy and Linh came direct from Berlin to Rhenen. Maybe the relationship between Phnom Tamao and Edinburgh was facilitated by Todd as he obviously has contacts out in Cambodia in order to have brought JoJo and SreyYa and Toni and Milli over. Perhaps originally Rhenen were looking to do something similar, and then Cindy and Linh became available from Berlin instead.
He did keep them at RSCC when it first opened. I took this photo in August 2008. I thought the bear was a subadult female, but I don't know when or where it went subsequently. If I remember correctly there was a smaller male too. Sun bear at RSCC by gentle lemur posted 6 Sep 2008 at 10:21 PM
