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Replace a popular US zoo animal with a more endangered one

Discussion in 'Quizzes, Competitions & Games' started by CMP, 11 Dec 2020.

  1. Great Argus

    Great Argus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    The warthog in particular is common due to public exposure (The Lion King in particular) and the Red River Hog has bred well and been quite successful. The two species can be added to African sections very easily.
    We would have to breed a lot of the Asian two to fill all the spaces opened by phasing out the African duo. Also remember that the AZA cannot force any species changes; they're more like a distant oversight committee.
     
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  2. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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    The warthog and red river hog being African is more significant than it may seem, especially one being a savanna species and one being a forest species. They are often mixed in with African hoofstock or shoehorned in alongside species like okapi, great apes, giraffes, or hippos. Pigs haven't historically been shoehorned in with Asian showcase animals, and there aren't a lot of mixed-species Asian paddocks in US zoos... but the situation is hopefully improving. Visayans in particular have spread to quite a few places now I believe.

    I'd agree with you that some red river hog/wrthog spaces could and should be converted for Asian swine, which (unlike the Eulemur) actually seem to be prolific breeders. On top of that, another rare species that has been expanding in the US is Chacoan peccary, which the US has been very successful at breeding and has since exported to Europe.

    I agree with the overall premise that I'd rather see more Malagasy giant rats, but I don't see what that has to do with capybaras given they aren't going to use the same enclosures :p
     
  3. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    I just think there should be more space made for the two species in US zoos given their urgent conservation status but I realise that it is complicated and that in reality it is very difficult to get zoos on board with this.
     
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  4. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear that the Visayans (and the Chacoan peccary) are being kept by a lot more institutions now, that is very encouraging.

    Well I only brought the Malagasy giant jumping rat up in the sense that both it and the capybara are rodents with the latter being kept by far more zoos than the former despite the conservation status of the former.

    I wasn't thinking about capybara enclosures being repurposed for giant jumping rats at all really as I don't think this would even be possible.
     
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  5. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Patagonian Cavies could probably be replaced with Malagasy Jumping Rats, though.
     
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  6. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yes, but, while I do see your point, ex situ populations of an animal are not likely to do a whole lot of good in increasing the population unless that species is right on the brink. The preference is of course given to endangered species, but the essential point here is that they are preferred not necessarily in order to form an ex situ breeding population but often to promote the species and raise awareness for its plight, while also placing the zoo in a better light.

    For example, imagine this scenario. A small zoo in, say, Germany is doing well. Visitors enjoy visiting the zoo for a low cost for a nice walk in the woodland, occasionally seeing animals along the way. The zoo holds almost uniquely Eurasian animals (Red deer, boars, foxes), with perhaps a lemur or a few pheasants in there too.

    Now, continuing this scenario, one day the director of the zoo decides he wants to import Tufted deer in the place of the Red deer. Now the climate and adaptations of the deer are similar, so the species are almost a perfect switch! Almost exactly what this thread aims to bring out. Of course, the Tufted deer are also more endangered.

    However, there is a problem. The exhibit has to be renovated - maybe split in two for the smaller species. Then there are more costs - new signage, demolition of old or rotting fences, possibly a new indoor area, the cost of importing the deer from another zoo and so many more add-ons in addition. They also need to get the deer out to another collection and buy up different food for the new species.

    Suddenly, the switch is costing thousands. For what benefit? If they manage to get a breeding pair, they might get one, maybe even two fawns. But the chances of that are small, even negligent - who is to say that if they do get a pair of opposite sex, the pair will mate, and that birth will be successful? If they do give birth, the adult animals are likely to die in captivity, serving no function other than to reproduce, perhaps replace themselves with one, maybe two fawns. So in essence by bringing these deer into captivity we have replaced a breeding pair (if they even are a pair and genetically viable) with two fawns who are not genetically viable (they are siblings...).

    So surely there must be another reason or advantage of bringing them in? Well yes - the fact that they are there raises awareness for the species' plight, if only among a few locals. Furthermore, people are more likely to be intrigued by Tufted deer with fangs than ordinary Red deer they see regularly in the wild anyway. And finally any breeding success would be an additional success, raise more money for the zoo and put it in a good light? All of these things would apply.

    However, is it really worth it? What we are suggesting by these swaps is that they would viable or a good idea. But at the end of the day, the zoo spends thousands on switching the species, renovating the exhibit, feeding the animals, veterinary costs and signage. The money gained from the switch would likely be two orders of magnitude below this cost.

    In conclusion, most swaps like this would cost a lot more than they would bring in, not really benefit even the ex situ population let alone the population of that species as a whole and eventually boil down to a failure.

    Where the story changes is with enigmatic species like big cats or highly endangered but less flashy species. It is at this point that I feel zoos have a duty to fulfill and try and establish a healthy, viable breeding population of that species ex situ if they choose to do so. At that point it is no longer a question of profit or cost.

    All this to say, the zoos cannot pick and choose which animals they bring in. They have to make an informed decision based on all the background costs the import will create as well as the positives and income it will bring the zoo.

    This is the most important thing - whether they will be able to 'pay for their stay' so to speak. If a species cannot bring in anywhere near as much as another, it is off the list.

    Nope, Europe has far far more zoos than the US. The US is still only a country ;)
    I think a lot of it stems from the smaller percentage of European zoos that make it into the gallery compared to zoos across the pond.

    As has (I think) already been pointed out, the point of the thread is to make a vaguely realistic swap between a common species and an endangered one, where the species' needs and size are similar. This fulfills neither criteria.

    Again, not possible. The more common bovids are often in captivity because they have a high cold tolerance (most zoos are in the Northern Hemisphere) and can mix (most of the time) easily with other species. Anoas, again, have neither. I agree, it would be nice, but it is not realistic.

    This isn't really a fair swap either. Maras eat pretty much entirely green vegetation, whereas giant rats need a varied diet and eat just about anything they can find. Giant jumping rats don't need as much space and are entirely nocturnal. Maras are much more suited to smaller zoos with a more open-range approach to exhibits.
     
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  7. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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    In addition to what AL said, they are also tropical and probably not as cold-tolerant as Patagonian mara... which would be a problem considering mara are normally in outdoor pens.

    To be honest I don't think there is an equivalent species that has "replaced" the Malagasy giant rat, as it was never particularly common to begin with and nocturnal species have not generally been expanding in the US lately, nor have most rodents.
     
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  8. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Well then why not the Malagasy giant jumping rat instead of the degu, African crested porcupine or agouti ?

    The point about mixing anoa with other species is well made but cold tolerance ? I don't think so as many European zoos in the Northern hemisphere keep the lowland anoa.
     
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  9. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I'd like to see the cururo more often. Even my friend liked seeing it. It could replace degus. I haven't seen a tucotuco for some time.
    How about a thick-spined porcupine instead of an African crested porcupine and a pacarana or mountain paca instead of an agout? I've only seen those a pacarana and a mountain paca once.
     
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  10. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Where was the cururo kept ?

    There are so many alternatives to the agouti really and I think the same with the African porcupine.

    The thing is rodents are so comparatively underrepresented in zoos and there a great many species which require ex-situ, it is really quite a shame.
     
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  11. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I've seen cururos at the Berlin Tierpark.
     
  12. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Plzen has a large collection of rodents. I'm pleased that more zoos are showing Chacoan maras.
     
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  13. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Regarding the topic of zoos made up of all native species (previously mentioned by @amur leopard), these are some of my favorites, and can be really important. Many people (especially in the US and Europe) seem to not realize there are interesting (and sometimes endangered) species living right around them, they seem to think of "endangered" as a synonym of "tropical" or "exotic". Facilities that keep lots of native species (even when those species are common in zoos and not very endangered) can really help to reverse this trend. They also usually have lots of educational signage about things the average person can do for local biodiversity, which is awesome. The planting of native plants is often discussed at these sorts of zoos and rarely ever mentioned at "global zoos", which IMO is one of the most important things (if not the most important) thing the average person can easily do.
     
  14. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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  15. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, exactly, and I really do think that native endemics should be kept by zoos more whether in the US or Europe.

    I feel especially strongly about encouraging this in Latin American zoos too due to the high biodiversity of the region and urgent need for captive breeding programes.
     
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  16. GiratinaIsGod

    GiratinaIsGod Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the Tooth billed pigeon would stay long in the typical emu exhibit. The reason Emus are so often keppt besides that they are very aviable and relative cheap) is that they are the only large land animal of Australia, that isn't a Roo or a dingo.
     
  17. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know, I wasn't suggesting in the same exhibit as an emu but rather that zoos could focus on the tooth billed pigeon and housing it ex-situ as a bird that is endangered unlike the emu.
     
  18. GiratinaIsGod

    GiratinaIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Again, most Capybaras are kept on big open areas, together with animals like Tapirs, Reas and New World camels. I don't think many exhibits are suited to take care about the Malagasy giant jumping rat. It is allways importent to think about the type of enclosure this species need. The Malagasy giant jumping rat could much better replace smal newwold monkey species, like the Emperor tamarin or maby animals like the cuban huita (which are even 2 of my fabourtie species). Since they need similar type of exhibits.
     
  19. GiratinaIsGod

    GiratinaIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Then I understood the question of "replacing commen animals" not correctly
     
  20. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Degu are diurnal, commonly kept as household pets and are also very low maintenance in comparison.
    Crested porcupines, while primarily nocturnal, can be kept outdoors and clearly are able and willing to feed and move around during the day in zoos at least. They are also more interesting to the general public (quills add to its status as an oddity), and it much easier to obtain.
    Agoutis are diurnal, can be mixed easily with birds as they almost always are and are low maintenance.

    They have less cold tolerance than other bovid species and require indoor housing, which they often use during the winter, so are not really on show for a third of the year in colder countries.
     
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