Do you know of any plans to bring in another male soon, or is there going to be the same long period of waiting, like after Bobby's death when it was nearly a year before the new male arrived? I also heard an earlier rumour( but it was only that) that 'Effie' may carry something she transmitted to 'Yeboah'. Possibly there's no foundation for that though?
Interesting news from Procyonotor. I do find some of the post in a number of threads can be a little harsh on London. Perhaps because of its location and past, some people feel it somehow owes them more than other collections and that it is our national zoo. We all heard about Yeboah's death and I certainly read about it in more than one newspaper, so there was no secret. I am sure no collection reports the death of every creature that passes away as a news story. I know that there is a current trend to make personalities of some of the 'star animals' and that he was important to the collection; I also know that having seen Hilary (possibly spelt incorrectly) the male giraffe for many years, I was saddened to see him sitting quietly indoors at the end of the day being hand fed by a keeper and think he probably didn't have long left. I would have liked to know when he died and if he was euthanased or not and it may well be that a descrete notice was put up for some time afterwards. Personally, I would like to have known. I do not think, however, that any collections owes the public a press release on such issues and nor do I think the majority of those visiting the zoo would actually be that interested anyway.
Pacu- I don't know how Hilary died either, I remember hearing about it around the zoo and there being a certain uproar that whilst Bobby's death was so widely publicised she was forgotten about. One of the mammals north senior keepers worked with her for her entire life at the zoo, and she deserved to be recognised, but mammals south and Bobby was believed to hold more resonance with public sympathies. I do think that there should have been a small notice on the webpage, just because there was the huge fanfare in the press about the arrival of Yeboah, but that's the only reason. I believe that the mammals south team are looking into obtaining a new male but it is difficult to ensure that we can find one that is genetically suitable and it's also complicated by the current situation. Until we obtain test results we're pretty much in limbo. In regards to Effie, I hadn't heard that specific rumour. I also find it surprising as she had the least contact with him, but it ties in with the current things flying around the zoo about sex-linked diseases. How this could have happened I've actually no idea, but if one of our females (god forbid) *is* carrying something then it would most likely have arrived with a previous male. There was some hoo-hah about a gorilla we obtained from Howletts/Port Lymphe a few years back but the details escape me, and I do not want to stir up bad feelings as they are fantastic zoos and I hold great respect for them. Mammals South tend to keep themselves to themselves (with some contact with Mammals North) just because they have little crossover with other departments, but I'm almost certain that as soon as news arrives everyone within the zoo will know and it will end up on here soon enough (there a few London Zoo people floating around on here after all). I do think that for now at least, Jookie is the most important thing. It'd be lovely to have a fully functioning troop, but the likelihood of that happening in the next few months is slim. Yes, we lost another male, but there's a (kinda messed up) silver lining to all of this.
Alan, Firstly I am in agreement with you but was trying to see things from a ZSL perspective (aka playing devils advocate!). Unfortunately, if you look at the four strategic aims of ZSL, you need to look at the small print to find education listed. Although conservation is key, one of the four main aims is "To further ZSL’s mission by maximising opportunities to generate funds". Despite ZSL charity status it is still a business, albeit one that can claim tax back! With losses in sink funds etc due to the current economic climate I can see the marketing team wincing with the death of a star attraction. This will because of its money making potential and not for its importance to endangered species breeding which is what the rest of us see as a loss. I advocate transparency as well but ZSL seem to use the web as a marketing tool, my ideal would be to have a section that purely deals with the collection, research and real news. Colchester seem to be proactive, ZSL seem to drag their feet when it comes to information sharing, especially on the internet. I think we both want to see the same transparency, I just wanted to make the point I could see the reasons for ZSL keeping quiet, but dont necessarily agree with them. Anything that brings in more gate money to reinvest in the zoo or keeps the anti-zoo brigade off air or out of the papers does get my vote though Zeb
In Effie's case, if she is carrying something(and that's only an 'If'..) then she may have brought it with her from West Berlin Zoo. I don't know if Yeboah mated with her- if not, then she would be in the clear obviously. The previous male you are referring to came from Port Lympne. 'Jomie' was found to be carrying Hepatitis B. when he was tested after his arrival at ZSL. As he was born at Howletts(to ZSL owned female 'Lomie') so its unlikely he had it at birth. The most likely source was that he contracted it from a Colobus monkey(or its droppings?) which shared his cage at Port Lympne- he killed it and partially ate the carcass. It didn't appear to transmit to the females at London(included Zaire) but I think he died from it. I'm hoping they can get another male before too long to complete the group again, though Mjuku's pregnancy does make incorporating another one more difficult obviously. While finding a genetically suitable male becomes harder still with the increasing relatedness among all the European groups too.
Dear Zeb, I don't think that we disagree substantially. Of course all charities exist to raise money - but it must be for a charitable purpose, not just for its own sake. I quite realise that ZSL's high profile makes them more vulnerable to bad publicity than other zoos and (as Little Lion Man has pointed out) that Yeboah's death could hardly have happened at a worse time. But Procyon lotor's point is a good one - Yeboah's arrival was trumpeted, so there ought to be some public comment about his demise. I feel that ZSL has unique responsibilities and unique opportunities, but unique problems too. I can't agree that anything that brings in visitors is justified, but I certainly understand how the operation in Regents Park requires good PR and marketing as well as continued attention to improving the experience of visitors, while working on a limited budget. I worry that the current strategy is not good enough, but I very much hope that I am proved utterly wrong. Alan
One of my concerns about ZSL is their one size fits all approach to communications. There seems no way to opt in to more detailed news about the society and collections which I find quite frustrating. It would be quite easy to have a light and PRish website with a more detailed blog for those who want something more and a more detailed and regular newsletter would be much better than their current in-flight magazine format. I'll stop now because I've said this before in other threads.
I think even ZSL know its not strong enough and my pet hate from all zoos, but in particular ZSL, is the level by which they dumb things down. Unfortunately education departments and marketing departments seem polar opposites and the marketing depts seem to win, even dictating new exhibits based on appeal alone. I wasn't suggesting anything to get visitors through the gate either - my day at San Diego wild animal park was marred by the dinosaur replicas - why oh why?????
My Dad told me about the gorilla dying. He not a zoo person, so I really don't think they've been keeping it under wraps - it must have been in some papers or radio news. Of course they're not going to have a huge press push for something like that when they've got other things to talk about (the clore) it's not a lack of transparency it's common sense. We don't know whether or not they put a press release out. I suspect they did but no-one was interested.
any news on a new male? It's already been 4 months snce Yeboah died. Who do you think would be a good replacement?
After the previous male 'Bobby' died it was almost twelve months before 'Yeboah' was brought in. This time they have added complications-the circumstances of death and (probably) a pregnant female- though I don't think the latter reason should prevent a new male arriving. Some possible replacements; Kesho- 11 years. Currently at Dublin Zoo. * Socially ideal so my preference Kumbuka- 13 years. Currently at Paignton. But was handraised and is related to two of the three females at ZSL. Ujiji.- 16 years. Port Lympne bachelor, who has also(like Oumbie now at Twycross) been without female company for 12 years or so, which is a very long time to expect a good reintegration. Probably unlikely anyway if PL are still reluctant to send animals to ZSL. Otherwise it will have to be another male from Europe such as Uzuri or Mbewe from the Beekes Bergen Safari male group( consists of 4 males all born at Apenheul) - or even better genetically, one from the USA.
A vote for Kumbuka from his fan club He's got looks and personality, wouldn't need to be quarantined, and would benefit from some company.
Kesho solunds like a good canadite for me, he's young (but not too young) , mother reared and fairly close
On the new three-part ITV1 documentary on ZSL called 'The Zoo' (which started tonight), the keepers mentioned clear links between the demise of Bobby and of Yeboah; apparently both mated with Effie about four weeks before getting very sick, and there were several comparisons made between their symptoms and lab results. If it is something Effie is carrying (and I can't think what), how would they realistically stop Kesho from contracting it?
I don't understand the vet-side of this at all, but if both Bobby and Yeboah died within 4 weeks of mating with one particular female (suggestively from the same thing), is it possible it is a sexually transmitted infection (can gorillas get STI's, I assume they can)? If it is an STI, could the female not be contracepted? Like I say, I could be completely wrong and it is actually very likely I am .
Erm, the form of contraception that protects against sti's is the condom. I think you'd have fun getting Kesho to use one!
AFAIK the previous Silverback 'Bobby' was just found dead in his nest early one morning. I thought he just had a heart attack (quite common in captive male Gorillas) and I'm not aware he had showed any previous symptoms of sickness, though on the programme they did indicate there were some similarities between the two deaths. From the PM it seemed as if despite the symptoms he showed, that they still aren't sure exactly what caused Yeboah's death. Kesho has already mated with 'Effie' so as long as he doesn't get sick four weeks afterward too (God forbid) then it does prove it was just coincidence. I am quite sure they did some tests on 'Effie' in order to discount that theory, before bringing Kesho in. However... there is also the death of silverback 'Derrick' (only 25) at West Berlin Zoo in 2005 under similarly mysterious circumstances.....and guess who was at Berlin at the same time?
Thanks Pertinax. I sincerely hope it's all just coincidence, and that the new baby is the first in a string of successes for the gorillas at the zoo.
