I watched, was interested and didn't really change my mind about how I feel. The chimps took part in the adverts, MB loved them, they may have enjoyed the goings on at the time, they have suffered long term. Money helped the zoo. Oh yes I loved the adverts and am, sadly, still likely to ask colleagues today "Avez vous un cuppa".
I saw the programme. I remembered a lot of the commercials and as a child in the 1960s and 1970s I enjoyed them. I think Molly Badham did a great job in training them, I think she did a terrible job of treating them like wild animals. Nevertheless it was a different era and she did a lot of good at Twycross. I enjoyed seeing the old chimp house at Chester and the old film of Twycross. I last visited Twycross on 7th December and I think that the zoo is slowly improving. I never knew Susie Boardman but I know a lot of people who did, and she was not well liked or respected. I do not know Dr Redrobe, but I recently met someone who has met with her and told me that she was very pleasant and efficient, which is all one can ask for when dealing with someone in a professional capacity. I thought the programme was interesting.
I also watched and enjoyed the programme. Did we learn anything new from it? No. Was it right to hold tea parties and use them for films? No (even if it was acceptable then) Did it at the time harm them? No Did it have long standing effects on them? Yes Are Twycross approaching the matter in straight forward and suitable way? Yes in fact since the founders retired they are doing all they can to ensure they live out as natural life as they can. Does that make the founders bad people? No Simple really but people with grudges never tend to listen to reason.
Also watched and you have summed up my thoughts pretty well! The long-term suffering is clearly the issue here.
I also watched and enjoyed the programme . I first visited Twycross Zoo over 40 years ago and some of the old film brought back memories of my early visits . The film of Choppers and her original 'owner' was interesting . I saw no sign of excitement in Choppers , which I might have expected to have seen if there was recognition . Fascinating to see Molly B. getting very physical with some of the adult chimps , even if not in with them .
Unfortunately I was working last night so only saw the second half of the programme - it might be unwise to comment on a half-seen (literally ) programme! From what I saw it told me little I didn't already know, was a shade lightweight (but perhaps the first half was better), and not unduly critical of Twycross, Misses Badham & Evans, or the current regime. It was lovely to see the clips of the classic Twycross white-painted wood and wire enclosures! The 1975 "reintroduction" was clearly a disaster, and I was a little surprised that it was so openly covered.
I thought it was very good programme , fair and balanced , Far from disrespecting Molly , I feel Ms Redrobe and Twycross were very generous and kind in her comments , acknowledging the chimps were never cruelly treated , none the less it has to be acknowledged that today's Twycross has had to pick up the pieces and help these chimps live a more natural life , I do feel that had Molly been around today and knew what we now know , she would have done things very differently for her beloved chimps , nothing had ever been done like that before ( training to be used in adverts ) and she couldn't have envisaged the long term damage to the chimps , as shown last night once she did learn more she provided the chimps with a lifetimes care as best she could at the time , I really don't understand the anti Twycross thread , again it was a very fair and balanced programme to both the old and new Twycross , thankfully with more knowledge things change and we have to move on , Twycross of the 60,s was of its time just as it is now , we can only Strive to be the best at any given time and with the resources available .
I am pleased to read that members enjoyed watching the programme last night, perhaps as zoo enthusiasts, in particular those who are familiar with Twycross, did not learn anything new, but please remember just like "Our Zoo" these programmes are made to interest and entertain the general viewer not only members of zoo chat. Regarding the accusation from a member that I appear to have a grudge against the current C.E.O. of Twycross, I take exception to this as it is definitely not the case. I do take an active interest in what happens there , yes, and at times I can be critical, my reason?, quite simple I want Twycross Zoo to thrive and prosper as it did in the days of Miss Badham and Miss Evans, it most certainly did not prosper when under the direction of Mrs. Boardman, hence me taking and interest in its current activities, it is nothing personal, I can assure you of that, PS. I do not need to use bold lettering to get my message across, thankyou.
Why snip at Dr. Redrobe stating they don't make good pets? As you said it was made for general audience not zoo enthusiasts and they may not be aware of this. Get behind the zoo then as there has been some positive changes in recent years under this management. At least praise them for the positive changes instead of moaning and saying how good it used to be. No place is perfect and never will there be a perfect zoo. Lastly I used bold to make my post easier to read, sadly a fact and skill lost on yourself.
I don't disagree with the general tone of the comments about this documentary. I can't condemn the use of the chimps for advertising in those days: virtually all the alternatives were worse. I have no doubt that the Misses Badham and Evans were devoted and dedicated to those chimps. However the film reminded me how badly the older chimps were housed at Twycross in those days. The contrast between the original cages in the 'Green Mile' and the roughly contemporary footage from Chester was dramatic (Chester was not mentioned in the commentary, although the NEZS was named in the credits). Younger members should note that the old enclosures at Twycross were considerably enlarged before the chimps were all moved out about 18 months ago and the Chester accommodation has been greatly improved too. I have just been looking at some of my first photos from Twycross dated 1st October 1971. I have one of the orangs Jod and Trudie sitting in the last 'Green Mile' cage, nearest the mansion. I remember the splendid Sumatran male Toby holding a horizontal metal pipe with his hands and feet and whirling himself around so that at one moment his head was just above the tiled floor and a moment later just below the top mesh - the most exciting exercise he could have. Alan
Very well but it is quite in order for you to make personal swipes at myself, I see, I have dealt with the likes of you before, I think it best if I discontinued this conversation with you, message received?
It's pointless even attempting to compare running a zoo 30/40 years ago , to running one today , it's so completely different , people expectations have rightly changed over the last few decades .
You could ask the Brooke Bond Archive for your apology if you like as some of their data is incorrect. Yes I did watch it and as a piece of historic documentary research I actually enjoyed it and it brought back some childhood memories of seeing the adverts and even though I sort of remember them fondly I have always hated the anthropomorphism of wild animals, particularly clothing. I must admit I've also enjoyed your verbal jousting with Animal Friendly too - there are some interesting snippets buried within those posts.
If you want to take it as a personal swipe be my guest it was a worded so that it was noticed as you only seem to respond when you think your being insulted. It would make it easier for us to see your points if it was easier to read the post. I have dealt with people like you, you deflect when you have no substance. No point beating my head against a brick wall and actually get a discussion going if you are unwilling to attempt. I say good night and I will leave you to your "good old days."
"Verbal jousting" what a very nice way of describing it!, pleased you enjoy it, if we can entertain people and put a smile on their face it is well worth it my dear, you are a lady aren't you, I have always assumed you are
The programme was interesting, with some rare vintage footage. I hadn`t realised that the use of the Twycross Chimps had ceased on two separate occasions (I only thought it had been once), and I also was not aware of the attempt to reintroduce chimps before. Bizarrely, and it was not mentioned, there was in fact an attempt by some zoo keepers, who were against the use of the chimps in the tea adverts, to lobby the tea company and drum up support (they sent a petition I believe) in an effort to stop the use of the chimps in the adverts. I can`t remember exactly when this was but it was not that many years ago. What real impact, if any, this had I do not know. But perhaps this had some bearing on the decisions made by Brooke Bond (given that it came from those in the business perhaps) ?
That chimp didn't recognise that lady in my opinion, and the assertion that it did, spoiled for me a very enjoyable programme.
