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Discussion in 'South Korea' started by vogelcommando, 7 Nov 2015.

  1. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  2. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  3. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    a bald figure of 286 animals sounds really bad in a one year period, but it is rather meaningless without an account of which species were involved. The article naturally focuses on the big animals (in fact the only species even mentioned are jaguar and leopard), but the zoo has a very large invertebrate and reptile collection.
     
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  4. aardvark250

    aardvark250 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I'm quite surprise about that,and more surprise that it mention that"Ueno Zoo was 18.8 percent, while Yokohama Zoological Gardens had a 10.5 percent death rate, and Taiwan’s Taipei Zoo came in at 6.2 percent."

    I haven't been to seoul zoo,but I seen video about Seoul Zoo and found the condition isn't that bad(big enclosure,as I see).Taipei Zoo is a very good zoo(definitely top 3 of asian zoo),I'm really surprise about that.
     
  5. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I think it is meaningless to compare annual death rate in different zoos.
     
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  6. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  7. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  8. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  9. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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  10. Arizona Docent

    Arizona Docent Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    That is a great question and I am curious about this too. I remember reading a couple years ago that wild Amur tigers were seen after a longtime absence in the DMZ (human free zone between North and South Korea), so maybe this would be the place for reintroduction?
     
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  11. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I thought the DMZ was a fairly large de facto nature reserve.

    Even so, it will be interesting to know which areas they are thinking of.
     
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  12. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    In the book The Ark and Beyond (2018) there are 30 chapters/articles (all by different authors) and Chapter 17 is called From Sad Zoo to Happy Zoo: The Changing Animal Welfare and Conservation Priorities of the Seoul Zoo in South Korea by Anne S. Clay.

    The chapter about the Seoul Zoo is 14 pages in length and I found it to be a fascinating read. There is an initial discussion about 'Jedol' the Indo-Pacific bottlenose dolphin's reintroduction to the wild, then a brief look at the history of the zoo, followed by animal welfare concerns that have been brought up over the years. During the past decade there has been "a series of radical improvements in animal welfare at the Seoul Zoo" with many alterations to the way that the zoo has presented animals. The last few pages discuss the evolution of conservation at the zoo, with a focus on Asiatic black bears, red foxes and Asian leopard cats.

    The Amazon link for the book:

    https://www.amazon.ca/Ark-Beyond-Ev...1523051475&sr=1-1&keywords=the+ark+and+beyond
     
  13. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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  14. dt644

    dt644 Well-Known Member

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    Very bad news. Last September, it was discovered a few days ago that the Seoul Zoo abandon all of their Ring-tailed lemurs to poor private indoor zoos for win AZA certificates.

    The AZA evaluation panel pointed out that Ring-tailed lemurs at the Seoul Zoo have long been indoors, and They couldn't get enough sunlight. So they urged Seoul Zoo to improve that in last June, But Seoul Zoo responded by not improving but simply abandon all of their 21 lemurs in last December.

    The fact was revealed by the two animal rights groups in South Korea, Aware and Project Moon Bear, and they released photos of poor facilities where Seoul Zoo abandoned their lemurs, urging the zoo to immediately take the lemurs back.

    Also, according to the AZA regulations, zoos certified by AZA must check if that facility has a good enough environment when sending their animals elsewhere, but the Seoul Zoo has strongly criticized it for failing to keep it.


    In this Aware's statement and Internet news, you can see photos of a private indoor zoos where Seoul Zoo sent their lemurs. They sent 14 to an indoor zoo in Daegu named Spa Valley Nature Park and seven to an indoor zoo in Busan named Canyon Park, both of which are, especially Canyon park has hellish environment. AZA evaluators told Seoul Zoo to allow lemurs can get a lot of sunshine, but in the indoor zoos that Seoul Zoo sent their lemurs, the lemurs must be live exposed to the child's noise and without receiving any sunlight for all of their life.

    Me and other Korean zoo manias and animal rights groups in Korea are very disappointed at the Seoul Zoo. Seoul Zoo has been under intense criticism for similar cases before. Before were caught it in 2015, Seoul Zoo were sold their deer and goats to slaughterhouses every time when deer and goats were breeding too much. But now, they has done something similar again.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2020
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  15. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Two male North China leopard Panthera pardus japonensis were sent to Hagenbeck Tierpark in Hamburg to become part of the European breeding program.
    Link: Seoul Zoo sends 2 leopards to Germany, Denmark

    A somewhat longer feature appeared in a German news outlet:
    Link: Hamburger Tierpark Hagenbeck bekommt zwei Nordchinesische Leoparden - Hamburger Abendblatt

    The exchange operation seems to have been first initiated in 2017 as the Seoul Zoo wished to create an Amur leopard Panthera pardus orientalis breeding complex to restore the subspecies to the Korean Peninsula. Right now, the Seoul Zoo maintains 2 Amur leopards and is keen to acquire more. Also question: which zoos sent Seoul Zoo Amur leopard???

    Elsewhere it had been discussed the Seoul Zoo actually maintained 4 North China leopards prior to this transfer of 2 males to Hamburg. It would be interesting to know if and when any captive-breeding took place in Seoul Zoo with the North China leopard and what the origins of their leopards was (zoos in P.R. China?)!!!
     
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  16. dt644

    dt644 Well-Known Member

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    The Seoul Zoo used to have leopards caught in the wild in Korea during the old days of Changgyeongwon. When Korea was a colony of Japan, there seemed to be more than four to five Amur leopards caught in the wild of Korea, but since Korea was liberated from Japan in 1945, only one Amur leopard has been in Changgyeongwon.

    amur-han pyo.jpg
    Photo of Han-Pyo.​

    That Amur leopard's name was 'Han-Pyo', a male caught at born that year caught in Hapcheon County on February 12, 1962. Changgyungwon tried to find a female Amur leopard to pair up with Han Pyo, but failed to find it, so they tried Han-Pyo's mating in 1971 with a female Indian leopard named 'In-Pyo', who arrived at Changgyeongwon on January 28, 1964. And resulting in the birth of two Indian-Amur hybrid sisters on September 17, 1972.

    han_pyo_and_in_pyo.jpg
    First meeting of Han-Pyo(back) and In-Pyo(front). Filming October 21, 1971.

    han_pyo's_daughter.jpg
    Photo of Han-Pyo's Indian-amur hybrid daughter.
    Han-Pyo died of circulatory disorder on August 19, 1973, In-Pyo died in 1981, and Han-Pyo's two daughters died in November 1989 and 1990 at Seoul Zoo. If go to the Seoul Zoo's Leopard exhibit now, there is an explanation sign that explains Han-Pyo, but it explains that Han-Pyo did not leave his descendants, so I think the Seoul Zoo is treating Han-Pyo's hybrid daughters as nothing.



    To explain about leopards at Seoul Zoo now, Seoul Zoo brought a pair of leopards from the zoo in Harbin in Jun 29, 2005. They gave birth to two children on April 2, 2006, and I think they probably had breeding after that.

    And according to the international leopard studbooks 2002(BjoernN provided it before. Thank you again.), there was a female North-chinese leopard No.498 named 'Ping' at the Seoul Zoo, but I'm not sure about this leopard.

    Seoul Zoo believed that Harbin leopards were amur leopards, but only then did the Seoul Zoo carry out genetic tests on their leopards during the renovation of the leopard exhibit in 2014~2015, and they realized that their leopards were north-chinese leopards.

    After realizing that, the Seoul Zoo made efforts to secure Amur leopards, and in 2017, it invited Jo Cook, the head of ALTA, for bring Amur leopards in through their evaluation of their new leopard exhibit. Jo Cook highly valued the Seoul Zoo's leopard exhibit, and Seoul zoo brought in two Amur Leopard brothers in May 2018, born at Novosibirsk Zoo.

    Now that Amur leopards have been obtained, the Seoul Zoo believes that North-chinese leopards are not necessary and is taking them out to secure space. Now that they have export their North-chinese leopards out, they will try to secure the female amur leopards.
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2020
  17. Arizona Docent

    Arizona Docent Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Some taxonomists recently suggested that North China leopards and Amur leopards are the same subspecies.
     
  18. dt644

    dt644 Well-Known Member

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    Although IUCN announced that the two are same subspecies based on the lack of clear boundaries between Amur and North chinese leopard's habitats, my opinion is a little different. The amur leopards of north eastern China(Jilin Province) and some leopards of central China(Shaanxi Province, Shanxi Province) have somewhat different size and patterns of rosette spots, so I think the leopards of central China may be somewhat different from the amur leopards.

    I think it would be very important to determine whether the two subspecies are the same or different subspecies through a more solid genetic test of this.

    To tell a little different story, at Daejeon O-world, a zoo in Korea, there were Amur leopard male 'Gangsan' and female 'Maehwa' siblings brought in from Hiroshima Asa Zoological Garden when they opened in 2002, but Korean zoo enthusiasts thought that the patterns of Gangsan were probably North China leopards because his spots were not look like Amur leopards. But when I checked amur leopard studbook 2002, Gangsan and Maehwa were direct descendants of Amur leopard founder No. 2. who is famous for not being Amur Leopard.

    And here's one more problem: Maehwa died in 2012 and samples taken from Maehwa were used to map the Amur leopard genome. I think this is quite a complicated problem.
     
  19. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Yes, Gangsan/Maehwa are from the Frankfurt\Center Hill line and their male was another subspecies hence both where genetically "contaminated" and not pure Amur leopard.

    The Novosibirsk Amur leopards should I believe have some direct descendants from the wild, if I am not mistaken. The No. 23 and 24 in the studbook were both wild caught Amur males. The other breeding line was Leipzig Zoo (No. 14 and 15, M/F direct from wild). Tallinn Zoo also had a wild caught pair (No. 62 and 63). In fact, even Beijing Zoo exhibited a pair of Amur leopard in the eighties (No. 33 and 34, M/F direct from wild). And then, of course the Pyongyang Zoo breeding pair (No. 139 and 140).

    There have been several others mentioned in the early studbooks like 2 wild caught females in Center Hill (later than the No. 2 individual), but these were mixed with their original impure bloodline pretty quick. Also, Asahikawa Zoo exhibited a wild caught male (No. 74), but unsure if he ever bred (I do not think so TBH).

    Source: 1989 International Amur Leopard studbook.
     
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  20. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    It is just that a suggestion from some quarters within the profession: While the age old debate among taxonomists is one between splitters and lumpers.

    I - unlike my persona - do take the conservative route and believe we should not make the mistakes of the recent past and when/if clear ESU exist (any old mountain range / big river system / different eco type, habitat type and biome will do do not lump the 2 together (this goes for orientalis versus japonensis to be clear about these things) and thus keep those breeding lines separate!

    I can only but point to the Frankfurt\Center Hill leopard subspecies mix or the story our esteemed South Korean Zoo Chat forumster dt644 has underlined with an Amur / Indian leopard subspecies mix. Best to avoid those!