I wanted to make this tread so that the people of zoochat can discuss with one another about the future of these species and if they can be housed in captive locations across the globe. I’m slightly biased in my view but I don’t think we should bring these species in foreign captivity YET. A facility needs to be established in Ethiopia before anyone gets a wolf or an ibex. I believe the Ethiopian people should be able to see these wonderful animals up close and learn what is happening to them in there own land. Once a zoo that is at the same level of a zoo in the US, Europe, or even South Africa is established, maybe then others can experience the wonders of our country’s wildlife. Like I said, I have a very biased view. I have a huge pride for my country and giving Ethiopian wolfs to a zoo in Germany before the people can see a wolf in a zoo at their own country seems wrong to me at least. What do you guys think? Edit: Since I’m biased I won’t put my vote in the poll as I want to see what others think.
I don't see the either/or nature of the question. Housing, breeding, displaying species in one country does not affect whether or not a world-class zoo gets funded and supported in another country. They are not connected as far as I can see.
The question was talking about how the Ethiopian government is not willing to give Ethiopian endemics to other countries. My point was that the people of Ethiopia should have the opportunity to have their own zoo and get to see the native wildlife up close before the country starts sending them anywhere.
Probably I am wrong, but would Ethiopia ever build a zoo of the standard of American and European zoos? If you apply the same principles, of only allowing species to be housed that are first exhibited in the countries of origin, then I think there would be a lot world zoos with empty enclosures.
In all honesty a zoo in Ethiopia would probably be at similar standards as South Africa but anything is possible as the country’s economy grows quickly. I agree and see what you are saying but I want the people to learn about their wildlife by going to zoos in their home country and not traveling across the Mediterranean. I know it’s wishful thinking but zoos in China housed pandas in China before sending them out to other countries. Like I said, I’m biased and have a case of the national pride but I can see where you are coming from.
Unfortunately this seems to be a reality that could happen. It doesn’t even have to be a zoo. It could be a public breeding facility like white oak (I think that’s what its called). With the oral vaccine for the wolves and the importance of tourism in the country (As the wildlife is one of the most important things in Ethiopian tourism), I hope that the government will realize and continue to work on something that will help the species of Ethiopia
I'm confused about this poll as geladas are kept in foreign zoos. Ethiopia has financial problems and I doubt if many starving people would want money to be spent on zoos. I suggest that Ethiopia charges foreign zoos to borrow mountain nyalas and Ethiopian wolves and that Ethiopia owns any progeny, which can be used to boost wild populations. The loans should start with small numbers and not copy the disastrous scheme where many Sumatran rhinos died en route to zoos and very few were bred in captivity.
The poll only applies to the species that are not currently in captivity in foreign zoos. As someone who has ACTUALLY lived in the country and met many of the ethnic groups, I can tell you with 100% full confidence that the people of Ethiopia are not starving to the degree that everyone thinks we are. In fact in terms of homelessness and poverty, the country is similar to almost every other 3rd world country. I won’t say I’m offended but I’m deeply disappointed that still seems to be a mindset of some people. So I strongly disagree with you on that point. People in Ethiopia are also people of learning (at least the public) they will pay to enter a zoo to learn about an animal. The loan option is a good idea though. I actually didn’t think about that and I can see it being a potential middle ground for foreign zoos and the country of Ethiopia. This probably will be the option Ethiopia resorts to if they decide to give their animals to others.
The problem is that if they give away animals on loan, I think China is first in line. Politically speaking the Ethiopian government is rather fond of China and not so much fond of the west (for the people of Ethiopia it seems to be the other way around). Unfortunately there will always be this whole political dimension involved....
I'm pleased that the situation in Ethiopia has improved. I worked with an Ethiopian who returned to Ethiopia about 10 years ago. He said that the situation there hadn't improved since the Live Aid concert in 1985. I also attended a talk, where the speaker said that the Ethiopian government exported more food to the UK in 1985 than the UK exported to Ethiopia.
There's more that goes into a zoo (and conservation, by extension) then a rapidly growing economy*. The new prime minister has a mess of competing challenges that put conservation down towards the bottom. And that's assuming that the entire country/region doesn't break down into internecine warfare. * - It's not hard to grow an economy when 85% of it is reliant upon agricultural production. It's also dangerously susceptible to a spike in global interest rates being overly reliant on foreign investment. Pride goeth before a fall and let me join in the chorus of those who don't see why this has to be an either or situation. You just saw what happened with the Northern white rhinoceros,right?
Waiting and hoping for the government to realise means you are gambling with the species continued existence. What I read above is you would rather the species went extinct (waiting for the government) than let other zoos in the world have them. The Ethiopian Govt might one day build a zoo, but in the foreseeable future it won't be first class (more than likely it will be like a roadside zoo as opposed to a White Oaks-type facility). To set up a breeding group requires a lot of money and expertise; overseas facilities can provide this, not the government of a third world nation. Hix
That’s true but there are some good zoos in China that could properly care for the animals. St. Louis zoo is also a candidate for these animals as they do lots of conservation work with mountain nyalas and Ethiopian wolves. Leipzig is a sister city of Addis Ababa so the zoo is also a possibility if they really want them. Al Wabra already works with many horn species as well (Beria antelope are actually on loan from the government) so they are also a candidate. Overall there are other facilities that could get the big three of the highlands (Ethiopian wolf, mountain nyala, walia ibex) as many place already do conservation work in the area and in the case of Leipzig and China, are good friends of the country. This is just a prediction though. Let’s hope it doesn’t go to a point of the northern white rhinoceros. The leadership change is still fairly new so I’m still unsure what the future holds for the political and economical world of Ethiopia. I think if facilities like Leipzig and other organizations pitch in it could be at least better than a roadside zoo. I don’t want the species to go extinct and I won’t let my political views cloud that so I’m sorry if that is what you read from my comment. It seems that I’m in a very small minority with this topic. After thinking about it and reading about my country’s current state and other countries, it seems that if this thing continues populations will go very low. Our country already has regional extinctions and I won’t allow for this to continue. I think my views are more baised on what happens with the Sumatran rhinoceros. I’m worried that a captive breeding program will fail and make the state of the species worse off. But as technology grows and political relationships become more and more important, I thought of a compromise between the ideals of the majority and the ideals of the minority. Yes this has many holes but it could work if the organizations come together. I purpose Dassie rat’s idea that Ethiopia can implement the loaning system. Facilities that work closely with conservation in the area (St.Louis, Frankfurt, etc) and zoos that are up to very high standards and have some relation to the nation (Leipzig) can pay for these loans and have captive breeding efforts in their zoos. The loan money can be used to not only fund conservation efforts in the nation, but can help build a breeding facility similar to Al warba so that there is a place back home that animals can be sent back to (Like pandas in China) so not only there is a worldwide breeding effort but also one back home. If things go haywire in Ethiopia (political issues, economic issues, famine, etc) the facility in Ethiopia could send many of the animals to previously mentioned places so that there is still a good gene pool within the species. I think this could potentially work but there are still many factors that I probably didn’t point out. It will take a lot of convincing and coaxing from the Ethiopian government to let this happen and that’s exactly what I plan to do in the far future. I’m not saying I’m building said facility in Ethiopia but I’ll get involved anyway I can to help the beauty that is my nation’s wildlife.
Allowing export of animals to foreign zoos helps animals, because it creates a reserve population, and helps the country, because it creates interest and promotes the country, its conservation and its tourism. I think you under-estimate promotional value of such a thing. Allowing export of Ethiopian animals might lead to foreign zoos giving expertise to whatever Ethiopian individual or government wanted to open a zoo, and maybe loaning some exotic animals which Ethiopians might want to see. This could bring your dream of Ethiopia having its own zoo a bit closer. Actually, animals like Mountain Nyala are exported from Ethiopia. Mountain Nyala is hunted for trophies in Ethiopia, but bizarrely export of live animals is banned. Although it might be that foreign zoos don't try very hard, because conservation elsewhere offers better return for effort. I can give example of my home country, Poland, which was the last place in the world with the biggest land animal in Europe, the European Wisent. Poland sent its Wisent abroad, including to countries where they went extinct, and not just ones but breeding pairs. As the result, when war wiped out wisents in Poland, they existed abroad and were send back to Poland. There was never a feeling that my country has 'monopoly' on Wisent, that it should make profit on sending them, or that sending some Wisent abroad somehow makes the country poorer. Overall, Wisent conservation was very successful, much more than animals of Galapagos or Ethiopia. Although, protecting a huge, huntable mammal in densely populated and industrialized Europe was as difficult task as anything. And it was 100 years ago, when Europe had lots of problems with starvation, bad governence etc.
I don't think foreign zoos would want it, except in a formal sense (like some decades ago, all zoos transferred the formal ownership of golden lion tamarins to Brazilian government). Ethiopian animals, nice as they are, cannot create as much money as giant pandas. China already wanted to loan commercially golden snub-nosed monkeys, but found that zoos were not interested in paying money. If I remember correctly, only one zoo in Japan agreed. A loan system (unless the loan is a formality) would create dangerous unpredictability. Zoos would spend money, but at any point some Ethiopian bureaucrat might change mind for local reasons like politics or popularity at home, demand animals back and obliterate the results. There is an excess of endangered species and conservation needs in the world and zoos should go for more predictable projects.
The US already sends Ethiopia a cool billion bucks a year in foreign aid. This in addition to having an over abundance of the Ethiopian diaspora. Politics being what it is, I imagine ownership issues could be worked into future aid requests. It took China,what,forty years to even establish a baseline standard? And that's not even countrywide yet. I'm not optimistic for the short-to-medium term. So long as the Tigrayans maintain a stranglehold on the military, key economic assets, and a ruling coalition I expect armed conflict to eventually breakout. Ethiopia's neighbors aren't helpful either. This is a start. Don't let your pride outweigh commonsense.
