Join our zoo community

Smithsonian National Zoo Smithsonian National Zoo News 2020

Discussion in 'United States' started by Mbwamwitu, 2 Jan 2020.

  1. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA
    Btw, @Elephant Enthusiast, do you still have an active link to the 2014 studbook? If it's not the AZA's wish for it to be available publicly, could you kindly share it with me via pm? There are those of us who are deeply concerned with this population who have no intentions of using it to activists. I hope my years on this forum have convinced members of my good intentions for its use.
     
  2. Elephant Enthusiast

    Elephant Enthusiast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2017
    Posts:
    448
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    The only photo I've seen of Bandara is from the Elephant.se Database of Dan Koehl. The photograph was taken in 1983 when Bandara was 8 years old.

    [​IMG]
    Photo: Brent Van Hooft, © Dinny's Digest
    Bandara, an Asian elephant at Calgary Zoo | Elephant.se Database

    Maharani was born in July of 1990 so it's possible the keepers knew Kamala was pregnant as she would have been at least 7 months into her 22-month gestation when Calvin was transferred to African Lion Safari. However, were keepers able to confirm an elephant's pregnancy that early into gestation back in the day?

    You're right about the relationship between Kamala and Maharani worsening long before they moved to D.C. With Kamala as her mother, and the only mentor other than Swarna, I can only imagine Maharani adopted these behaviours from Kamala during her time in Calgary. As time progressed, the dynamic between mother and daughter has only gotten more violent and dysfunctional to the point that being reunited after more than a night apart causes a confrontation. Hopefully, some form of peace will be established between Kamala and Maharani so the herd can feel some sense of calm again.

    Maharani miscarried her third calf 4 months early in October of 2012, prior to her being transferred to the Smithsonian National Zoo in May of 2014. It's been 7 years since Maharani has had a calf so I'm worried that the clock is ticking but hopeful that she will reproduce soon.


    Would a Moderator (@Chlidonias, @TeaLovingDave, @Crowthorne) be able to move any of the posts that don't pertain to news about the Smithsonian National Zoo to the general discussion thread: Smithsonian National Zoo: General Discussion? Thank you. :)
     
    Elephantelephant and AmbikaFan like this.
  3. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA
    I don't think pregnancies were were determined until elephant moms were considerably further along; that why I thought they'd be unaware. Nevertheless, it's an awfully young age for a calf to leave mom and the facility for any reason.... I wonder if the zoo feared for his safety.

    Bandara's whole face and head look so much like Rani! I'm still hoping @Hyak_II chimes in here with information about Bandara. It's nice to think of Rani as part of someone else and not just Komala. I wonder if Bandara had a hard time too....

    I think I may not have made myself entirely clear about Komala and Rani's inter-dependence. I don't think it's all anger and violence. We have a phrase here about a person who's "either at your feet" (worshipping you) or "at your throat" (ready to kill you). I think that's Rani. When she's angry after being away from her mother for a night, she's angry because her mother wasn't there to be with as she always is. If you have a pet dog, for instance, and are separated for a time, there is often smoke coming out of their ears after their initial elation, because they remember that you had the temerity to leave! Komala is Rani's mother, and I think Rani is SO used to having her around perhaps for security that she's truly upset when reunited. Notice the way it was explained that Rani had this reaction when separated for more than a night. It bothers her more and more to be separated from her mother. And truthfully in their first years in DC, I'd see Rani run around trumpeting hysterically and banging down the door to the barn because, say, a bird had flown too close to her ear--and Komala would come running to ease her stress. Swarna would eventually get there too. Komala represents security and probably wisdom for Rani--notice how it was Komala's influence that led Rani to abandon her calf. I was trying to say that removing Komala entirely could prove detrimental if it so shatters Rani's world that she'd be too stressed to become pregnant. If it were just hate and anger, it would be easier; there's an unhealthy co-dependence there too.
     
    Elephant Enthusiast likes this.
  4. Elephant Enthusiast

    Elephant Enthusiast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2017
    Posts:
    448
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Ohhh, that makes a lot of sense! Thank you so much for explaining and clarifying the dysfunctional yet integral relationship and dependency between Kamala and Maharani, @AmbikaFan!
     
    Elephantelephant likes this.
  5. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA

    Well, there's no guarantee that this is 100% correct, but it's consistent with everything I've seen. I guess it may have been clearer to simply say they all love each other in addition to the anger. I remember NZP's original descriptor of Swarna told of her standing for hours in the same spot to shade the sleeping baby Rani. And I'm not sure anger is even the right word, because anger is a result, not a cause. Perhaps the root of the violence is something more like jealousy and competition, perhaps over Bandara. The photo above shows him with the girls, so perhaps he wasn't separated and was a part of this whole dynamic. Maybe there was competition later for all three over Spike. And mother elephants are so protective that they often don't even let trusted aunties get close for a long time; maybe Komala was physical in keeping Swarna away because Swarna was too curious. For sure, size matters. Swarna's a bully's ideal choice because she is smaller, and once Rani reached adulthood and surpassed Komala in size, there may have begun a long struggle for dominance that's never been quite settled--Komala the elder, but Rani the physically larger. So there could have been a lot to fight about amidst their abiding constancy.

    But one thing is for sure: These are long and close relationships, Swarna and Komala 45 years; Swarna, Komala, and Bandara 16 years; Swarna, Komala and Rani almost 30 years. The girls have been closely bonded--for better or worse--for much longer than 80% of ZooChat members have been alive! The bad may be more visible to us, but there is, at the very least, a very strong connection there. A heroin addict may not love his drug, but he can't live without it, so even if love isn't involved on some level, dependency and need are.
     
  6. E Maximus

    E Maximus Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    17 Feb 2020
    Posts:
    286
    Location:
    Alive
    Just wanted to touch up on this comment. I could be wrong and plan could definitely change but I have asked several keepers about this scenario and they have all told me that like the Calgary girls, Spike is currently in his forever home. The last time I asked about this they informed me that if all else failed that more females would more than likely be brought in to breed with Spike. And if I’m not mistaken they do technically have the capacity to hold potentially 5 more elephants and their calves.
     
  7. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA
    This is truly unbelievably good news that I've never heard a keeper commit to. This could not be bigger news--we are so lucky to have you here! Realistically, after Ambika and Shanthi are gone and if Rani were to be considered post-reproductive and Spike were moved, NZP would be a retirement facility, no longer a breeding facility. Word that DC will definitely be a breeding facility into the future is extraordinary news!

    Spike is a tremendously valuable bull genetically. Both of his parents are wild-born, and they had no other offspring. There were actually people who thought he was being "wasted" by bringing him to DC on the hope that a cow with no living offspring 0/3 would do so now. If he really is here to stay, I would imagine that it's only the increasing success with AI that makes it possible for him to be here, but still have offspring elsewhere. And you're totally right about capacity--in fact, there is supposedly room for two bulls too. They'd just have to finish the reno of Happy's old hippo yard and whatever remained to be done on that part of the interior.
     
  8. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA
    • Great article about Smithsonian research into Asian elephant intelligence to help save their populations. NZP's Spike and Maharani are shown taking a test to get an apple out of a PVC tube. When he's already gotten his apple, it's Maharani's turn. As she manipulates, Spike beckons to her from behind bars because he wants another apple. So she drags it over to where he's reaching, takes the apple and eats it in front of him! Researchers/staff giggle appreciatively.

    • Researchers Are Learning How Asian Elephants Think—in Order to Save Them | Science | Smithsonian Magazine
     
  9. Andrew_NZP

    Andrew_NZP Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    20 Mar 2016
    Posts:
    710
    Location:
    USA
  10. E Maximus

    E Maximus Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    17 Feb 2020
    Posts:
    286
    Location:
    Alive
  11. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2015
    Posts:
    16,488
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Yes she is. Mei Xiang is born July 1998, so would be 22 years if she gave birth in July 2020; or 22 years and 2 months if she gave birth in September 2020 (the expected range).

    To my knowledge, Bai Yun (born September 1991) is the second oldest dam on record, giving birth to her last cub in July 2012 when she was 20 years and 10 months. The eldest dam on record at the time was just two days older.

    There may have been an advance on this in the last eight years, but I’d say a cub from Mei Xiang was statistically unlikely anytime after 2018. The two record holders being born two months later in the season (September) seemed to give them an edge in their 21st year as they were still only 20 when they gave birth birth.
     
  12. Andrew_NZP

    Andrew_NZP Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    20 Mar 2016
    Posts:
    710
    Location:
    USA
    Elephant Enthusiast likes this.
  13. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA
    Back when SDZ still had its active panda blogs moderated by the curator, they said that the eldest panda to have living offspring was none other than Bai Yun's mother, Dong Dong. I remember this clearly but can't find anything to corroborate it now. It would make some sense that the more-than-average reproductive span could be a genetic trait passed from mother to daughter.

    I was just watching the elephant cam for awhile, and I am struck by how bad Ambika's back legs look. She has been mostly standing still, but she keeps shifting weight between the back legs, and it looks as if she can get no relief because both are ailing. A while ago, I pm'd another watcher to report that her back feet were in an extremely awkward position, about 2' behind her body, with knees bent and the left turned slightly inward. This is the first time I've seen her with not just difficulty, but standing in contorted positions that make her look crippled. At times, the left leg looks as if it's about to collapse under her weight, She's only moved within a very small area in front of the barn. Now, she's just made slight turn to the right by pulling her right back foot way in front of the left, then swinging the left around. Now she's walking toward a keeper but very slowly and gingerly. She is working on puzzle box she has to unpack, but she is standing in what can only be described as an "A Frame" with both front feet well in front of her and both back feet behind her. Bless her heart, her tail has been wagging through it all.
     
  14. gerenuk

    gerenuk Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    4 Jul 2010
    Posts:
    837
    Location:
    USA
    Both of Spike's parents were captive born at a zoo in India.
     
  15. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA
    Amazing! How on Earth did you discover this?! For purposes of Spike's genetics, it makes him no less valuable, but with official AZA info suppressed, this is definitely what the TV and film world would call an Easter egg!
     
  16. PSO

    PSO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    8 Nov 2019
    Posts:
    777
    Location:
    FL
    Gerenuk knows his stuff about elephants, he knew more tho when he went by his original zoochatter name.....;)
     
  17. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    1,151
    Location:
    Dunellen, NJ, USA
    Gerenuk and I know one another from another thread, but from what I remember from the studbook, foreign zoos and parents are not specified. I'm very impressed and can only imagine what more he knows! Gerenuk, methinks we should become acquainted!:) What was your original name?
     
  18. E Maximus

    E Maximus Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    17 Feb 2020
    Posts:
    286
    Location:
    Alive
  19. StoppableSan

    StoppableSan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2016
    Posts:
    1,561
    Location:
    USA
  20. Elephantelephant

    Elephantelephant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jun 2019
    Posts:
    955
    Location:
    Europe
    She lived to a really respectable age. But I am very devastated because she was one of my favorite elephants. But the zoo has been preparing us for several months. RIP dear Ambika.:(