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Snowleopard's 2019 Road Trip: Netherlands, Belgium, France & Germany

Discussion in 'Europe - General' started by snowleopard, 15 Jul 2019.

  1. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    I've only seen the Walsrode and Berlin exhibits, but had no problems seeing the inhabitants - took a bit of patience and eye-adjustment mind you!
     
  2. jwer

    jwer Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I had a blast keeping up with the thread and it’s surreal I find myself in it :)

    Thank you for visiting, we had an awesome time! And as an exhibit man, I can fully understand your opinions and I share most. It was nice to experience Emmen without all the backflashes of what had been, but only really look at what is there now. It made me realise it’s not all bad. On a side-note, the prairiedogs should be contained but had obviously worked their way through their concrete walls and were making a break for it. The squirrel monkeys were also not contained in the old Emmen :)

    I also had just visited ZOOM and didn’t really get all the flack it received. Emmen should have gone that route too, take the good bits out (like the sea lions) and better the rest (Asia).

    Amersfoort really is a “mess”, both in pathways as geographical zones but I always enjoy my visits and thoroughly enjoyed this one. I didn’t know they had build the quirky prairiedog thing but it worked for me, even though it pushed the oryx back into an odd little exhibit. Funny to spend so much time at European badgers. True exotics for a Canadian zoonerd :)

    Thanks again for visiting :) keep on roadtripping dude!
     
    Last edited: 25 Aug 2019
  3. vogelcommando

    vogelcommando Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Are you sure... Rheas in the Australian Outback ;) ?
     
  4. pachyderm pro

    pachyderm pro Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Are you sure... It wasn't a joke? ;)
     
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  5. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    DAY 33: Thursday, August 15th

    Today I drove to the car rental facility at Schiphol (the famous Amsterdam Airport) and it was almost sad to let go of the Citroen C4 Cactus that I had for the entire 33 days as at no point did I ever take public transportation. There was a 7-hour flight from Amsterdam to Toronto, which really is well over 8 hours of sitting in a seat on a plane when one considers boarding and exiting the plane. Then I had a two-hour layover in Toronto, just enough time to stretch my legs, grab a sushi dinner and chat with my wife, and then I had a 4-hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver. When I arrived late on Sunday I saw my lovely wife, and the 4 kids were all wearing white t-shirts with 'Daddy's Zoo Crew' emblazoned across the front in big green letters. There's a cartoon picture of zoo animals and it says underneath 'celebrating #500' in pink letters. It was amazing to hug them all and those shirts were a total surprise to me and can be seen by those of you that I'm Facebook friends with. What a great return scene at the airport!

    I will say that my wife and 4 kids were so incredibly excited to see me, but in a final twist of fate that occurs on every summer 'Snowleopard Road Trip', after a couple of days at home it's almost like I never went away. Haha. It happens every year, as people get back into routines of doing mountains of laundry, the dishes, making dinner for the kids, etc., and it's like I never went away at all.

    A few numbers from the trip:

    95 zoos in 31 days, plus a day of flying to Europe and a day of flying home = 33 days in total

    6,500 km/4,000 miles added to my rental car's odometer, through the Netherlands, Belgium, western Germany and an afternoon in France.

    With 95 zoos and aquariums that were all new to me, I’m now officially at 516 zoos all-time.

    All-time zoo list:

    U.S.A. = 368 zoos
    Netherlands = 43
    Germany = 40
    Canada = 31
    Australia = 19
    Belgium = 10
    France = 2
    Switzerland = 2
    Trinidad & Tobago = 1

    Total all-time: 516 zoos (technically 412 zoos and 104 aquariums)

    I went through all of my reviews and tallied the 19 zoos that I spent a minimum of 4 hours at. Of course, with children tagging along then a place like Ouwehands or Amersfoort, popular Dutch zoos that cater to families with young children, would honestly be at least 7 hours each, but for a zoo enthusiast there is no need to test out playgrounds or go on carousel rides.

    Here are the 19 zoos that I spent at least 4 hours at, giving readers a guideline of an average visit for me.

    Pairi Daiza = 8.5 hours
    Berlin Tierpark = 8
    Berlin Zoo = 8
    Artis (Amsterdam) = 7 including Micropia
    Blijdorp (Rotterdam) = 6.5
    Cologne = 6
    NaturZoo Rheine = 6 (although it really is a 2-3-hour zoo)
    Antwerp = 5
    Burgers’ (Arnhem) = 5
    Hagenbeck = 5
    Planckendael = 5
    Frankfurt = 4.5
    Walsrode = 4.5
    Wuppertal = 4.5
    Apenheul = 4
    GaiaZOO = 4
    Munster = 4
    Osnabruck = 4
    ZOOM (Gelsenkirchen) = 4

    I do want to give some thank you remarks to the 11 zoo enthusiasts that I met along the way.

    A big thanks to @sooty mangabey as he and I finally met after years of correspondence. We are both teachers, both have 4 kids, both crazy about zoos, football/soccer, movies, books, Bruce Springsteen, etc., and after many years we finally met. John hopped on a plane and flew to another nation just to meet me and I'm indebted to his friendship. After 3 nights and 6 zoos together, I would have been fine if he'd tagged along for a few more stops but, alas, the lure of a Sea Life franchise was not enough to stop him returning to his home.

    Linda Waterworth, @MikeG and @Tim Brown also boarded a plane and they left chilly England for a sweltering hot day in the Belgian countryside as it was 40 degrees Celsius (100 Fahrenheit) on the day we stumbled around Pairi Daiza. They had all been to the zoo the previous year, but once they knew of my itinerary it was arranged to have a full day out at one of the world's largest and fastest-growing zoos. Again, the kindness shown to me is admirable, as who books a ticket on a plane just to meet a 43-year-old Canadian zoo nerd? Of course, Tim and I have spent years working towards the publication of America's Top 100 Zoos & Aquariums, a book that I've only mentioned a couple of times on this thread but the release date is fast approaching and we simply have to see it released by October or November so that zoo enthusiasts can add it to their Christmas shopping lists.

    There is @Stefan Verhoeven , who thanks to me is now visiting additional zoos on his U.K. holiday and he's even begun his own travel thread on ZooChat. I stayed at his house, we went out for a nice dinner and I could have spent more evenings with him if I hadn't been lured away to Germany to see some famous old zoos.

    I spent a whole day with @vogelcommando and we ended up seeing 6 zoos and thus that was one of the busiest days of the entire trip. Maarten was terrific, getting me free admission in some places and it was a memorable day of bouncing around from place to place.

    I really loved Burgers' Zoo in Arnhem, especially having @lintworm as a guide as he has been to that zoo on hundreds of occasions and probably could tell you how many blades of grass there are in the Chimpanzee exhibit. We also had @Mr. Zootycoon along for the ride and the three of us had a great time debating and chatting about zoos.

    Then there was Markus Fritsche, the founder of the brilliant website zootierliste, and he spent a whole day with me as we did 3 zoos together. Again, there was free admission, free parking and a couple of free zoo books as part of the day amidst great company.

    I had a wonderful, 6-hour visit to NaturZoo Rheine, with the red carpet rolled out for me by Zoo Director Achim Johann. He lurks on ZooChat, but like other Zoo Directors on here he must go incognito due to his professionalism. My day in Rheine was one of the more memorable days of the Euro trek, as the hospitality of Achim knew no bounds. He was extremely interested in my views of the similarities and differences between zoos on each side of the Atlantic, as he and I are probably part of a select few people in the world that have visited a tremendous number of zoos in both Europe and North America.

    Last but not least, I met @jwer and had a delightful meal (Chinese food in Groningen...delicious!), stayed at his house, was given more than 40 zoo guidebooks and 40 zoo maps, and then we spent the next day together at both Emmen and Amersfoort. What a truly enjoyable way to end an epic, exhausting, enthralling, exhilarating, seemingly endless road trip?

    I've met a number of zoo enthusiasts, keepers and even a few directors and dodgy zoo owners (check out my 2018 road trip thread to read about clueless senior citizens running zoos) over the years. However, on this trip the European zoo nerds took things to a whole new level. I was constantly amazed that people would jump on a plane to see me, or give me gifts, or shower me with free admission tickets, or complete strangers would offer me overnight accommodation, or just the friendliness of each and every individual that I met. It is genuinely heart-warming to think about and I will definitely return to Europe on numerous occasions in the distant future. If any of you are ever in southwestern British Columbia, then you can drop by and meet my brood as we live an hour east of Vancouver. It's not like Europe where you can throw a rock in the air and hit a zoo, but we do have the occasional black bear or coyote wandering through our backyard and lately we have had rabbits and deer several times per week. :p

    On another day I'd like to post a big summary that will repeat some of the things I've highlighted during the trip, and in this way it will act as an overall summation of the similarities and differences between European and North American zoos. Stay tuned...
     
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  6. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    Analysis of European and North American zoos:

    One thing about being in Europe is that I felt safer walking the streets, being inside zoos and experiencing the world on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. There are more cameras but far less police cars on the highways, which tends to actually make someone feel more secure. It’s funny how that works. When I spent 3 months in Trinidad & Tobago, teaching high school in late 2008, the University of the West Indies had barbed wire around the entire perimeter fence as the year that I was in the Caribbean there were more than 550 murders just in Trinidad. The violence was shocking, because with a population of only 1.5 million, Trinidad that year was one of the 10 most dangerous nations on the planet. However, not a single act of violence occurred on the campus for the whole year, with many people questioning the use of barbed wire on all the fences because the country’s homicides were almost all related to the drug trade. Does having a visible barrier or a police presence on the streets make one feel safer or less secure? I prefer the European approach, with no barbed wire, no police hardly anywhere, no borders between the western nations and a feeling of safety all-around. When I consider the extreme gun violence in the United States, along with memories from dodgy motels where I could hear people screaming at each other in parking lots, then I smile at my European adventures with nights at quiet motels and days mingling with well-behaved zoo patrons.

    In this long analysis, I must point out that all of these views are only from a single person, namely myself, and taken from a snapshot of a summer visit to Europe. I might have different views when you read ‘Snowleopard’s 2034 Road Trip: Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia & Macedonia’ (no offense to those nations, but they simply have fewer top-quality zoos). However, including Zurich Zoo and Wildpark Langenberg, I’ve now visited exactly 97 European zoos, and around 400 in North America, (plus a whole whack in Australia), and I’ve written reviews and posted them on ZooChat for the vast majority of my overall total of 516 zoos all-time. I’m an experienced zoo nerd. :p

    My gut feeling is that, taken as a whole, European zoos are better than North American zoos. That’s a sweeping statement, and my top two zoos are both in the USA (San Diego and Omaha), but #3 and #4 (Berlin and Pairi Daiza) are terrific and after those zoos there are plenty more great ones on both continents. In some ways North American zoos are better, while Europe edges things in other categories, but a major reason for Europe to be #1 is that there isn’t the long list of crap, roadside zoos that are still far too common in America. I have been to loads of small German, Dutch and Belgian zoos that are so obscure that more than a dozen of them have zero photos on ZooChat, and every single one of those tiny, relatively unknown zoos, are better than a lot of the zoological detritus that I’ve waded through in America. Lots of cheap, poorly-run American zoos have corn-crib cages and check out these photos in case you don’t know what those enclosures look like.

    Corn-crib cages:

    corn-crib cages - Google Search

    Many American zoos, in fact far too many to list, have corn-crib cages with large animals in these god-awful environments. I’ve seen eagles and hawks in these things, lots of different primates, many small mammals such as Raccoons and Coatis, etc. I’ve been to some zoos that have more than a dozen corn-crib cages all around the grounds, with cement floors, a few old branches, and not much else. I’ve seen American Badgers in these things with nowhere to dig, even tigers using them as some kind of junky shelter, etc. The worst zoos that I saw in Europe are far superior to the worst zoos that I’ve had the misfortune to tour in America.

    I’m actually going to be bold and list some establishments right here and now. Places like Alligator Alley, Animal Gardens Petting Zoo, Bear Den Zoo, Glacier Ridge Animal Farm, Jo-Don Farms and Special Memories Zoo (all 6 located in the state of Wisconsin) are small, privately-run zoos that have some truly horrendous exhibits. Bayou Wildlife Park, Franklin Drive-Thru Safari, Sharkarosa Wildlife Ranch and East Texas Gators & Wildlife Park (all 4 located in the state of Texas) are equally terrible, making one question how U.S. authorities could possibly grant a zoo license to these facilities. Sierra Safari Zoo in Nevada is atrocious, Arbuckle Wilderness Park in Oklahoma is nasty, and Wild Wilderness Drive-Through Safari in Arkansas has loads of baboons in tiny, chain-link cages and even a Chimpanzee in a sterile cage with nothing much but a tire or two hanging from the bars. That makes 13 American zoos that should all be either dramatically overhauled or shut down. The worst zoos that I’ve seen out of 97 in Europe would be De Paay in the Netherlands and Harry Malter Familiepark in Belgium, but the other 95 European zoos that I’ve toured are all better than the 13 American zoos listed in this paragraph. The U.S. has far too many roadside collections still in existence, with some of those zoos having remained stagnant for decades. At one point in my 2015 trip through many southern U.S. states (Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas, etc.), I had literally looked at 400 tigers, with tiny chain-link cages housing big cats the norm in some U.S. states. Even a totally obscure zoo that I visited in 2017 (Forever Wild Exotic Animal Sanctuary in California), had 25 exotic cats, of 6 species, in junky, chain-link cages, plus species such as Black Mamba, East African Green Mamba, Gaboon Viper, King Cobra, Red Spitting Cobra, Indochinese Spitting Cobra, Cape Cobra, Spectacled Cobra, Puff Adder and at least 10 species of rattlesnake. This is all in a place that has the word ‘sanctuary’ in its title, but one could make the argument that it’s also a roadside zoo and one of the worst places I ever toured in California. Tigers and Lions in tiny, chain-link cages in what appears to be someone’s backyard is something I’ve seen a dozen times in the USA, but is there anywhere like that in Europe?

    Essentially, my main point thus far is that the European zoo scene is North America’s equal in terms of great, world-class zoos, and yet Europe doesn’t have the plethora of roadside zoos that exist in the United States. Of course, I have not been to some of the Eastern European countries that might have disappointing zoological gardens, but I do know that there is certainly not the swathe of zoos that the U.S. has that are pure garbage, with many animals in corn-crib cages and in terrible environments with next to no enrichment opportunities given to them.

    I’ll now touch on many other points, some of which I’ve discussed earlier in this thread.

    - North American zoos have bigger elephant exhibits. There are exceptions to the rule, like with all of these comments, but in general there is more space given over to elephants. Woodland Park Zoo used to have many protestors because the old elephant exhibit, now given over to a couple of young male Greater One-horned Rhinos, was 1.5 acres/0.6 hectares in size including the barn. Other zoos with elephant exhibits that are 2 acres/0.8 hectares in size have been criticized for their size, with many spacious, multi-acre elephant habitats in North American zoos. Folks were therefore protesting elephant exhibits that would be an above-average size in many European zoos. On the flip side, European zoos have some truly impressive elephant houses that hopefully work well in the cold winter months.

    - European zoos have some superb bird of prey aviaries, with even mid-sized zoos having tremendous collections of eagles, hawks, owls and vultures. In some cases (Berlin Tierpark, Munster, Nordhorn) a vulture aviary is one of the highlights of the entire zoo…and this is coming from someone who has repeatedly admitted to not being a huge fan of birds. I was almost bowled over by some of the outstanding aviaries in Europe, including that phenomenal penguin/flamingo one at Planckendael.

    - North American zoos have far superior underwater viewing areas, with expensive, top-quality filtration systems that make the water crystal-clear through the acrylic windows. I found that many underwater viewing areas in European zoos were basically a waste of time in the summer, with green pools choked with algae. Having a Polar Bear at Ouwehands dive into the water was useless because I literally saw nothing but a wall of green. Also, North American zoos generally have pinniped exhibits with terrific underwater viewing areas and textured rock-work surroundings.

    - European zoos have better behaved visitors. Period. There is not nearly the amount of yelling at the animals, tapping on windows, etc., that is so prevalent in North American zoos. Therefore, European zoos can have plenty of walk-through exhibits without the fear of some gun-toting, gong show American firing a few rounds at a monkey. :D

    - North American zoos are cheaper. Ticket prices are probably fairly similar overall, considering currency exchange rates. However, while most big-city zoos charge for parking on both continents, there are far more parking fees in Europe and a little thing like that adds up to hundreds of dollars on a month-long journey. Not only the parking but having only paid for perhaps two zoo maps at 400+ zoos, I was paying multiple times per day for zoo maps while in Europe. So now I was dealing with extra payments for parking, zoo maps, ketchup packages, etc, and that all added up to a considerable additional expense that initially caught me off-guard.

    - European zoos have many guidebooks and I ended up buying at least a dozen brand-new guidebooks. I’ve gone on extensive American zoo trips (65 zoos in 2014, 81 zoos in 2015) and come home with maybe a solitary guidebook. European zoos embrace the written word far more than their North American counterparts and that is fantastic for a collector of zoo memorabilia.

    - North American zoos don’t have packs of dogs in them. This really only applies to German zoos, but in a place like Duisburg (to cite just one example) there were probably more dogs than exotic mammals in that zoo and I’m not even exaggerating. Some folks like that idea, but when a zoo already has close to a million visitors per year then adding dogs into the equation amps up the congestion to a whole other level.

    - European zoos have a rich history and some sparkling architectural monuments, statues and animal houses. There are zoos in the U.S. that are 120 years old (Woodland Park in Seattle), or 131 years old (Dallas Zoo) and there is literally nothing notable about the architecture at those facilities. European zoos preserve their history, erecting signs about certain buildings, while the North American approach is to demolish and move on.

    - North American zoos have either small, designated smoking areas, or in the vast majority of cases are completely, 100% smoke-free environments. When I was at Boudewijn Seapark in Belgium there were hordes of smokers all walking around puffing away near children’s playgrounds, the water-slide area, the restaurant, etc. Insanity!

    - European zoos, for the most part, show exhibits behind-the-scenes and unveil the curtain in a dramatic fashion. I can remember walking into the Saint Louis Zoo Antelope House and being amazed at looking at the ungulate stalls. In Europe, I strolled into Elephant Houses, Rhino Houses, Hippo Houses, Antelope Houses, Great Ape Houses, Monkey Houses, Carnivore Houses and Bird Houses and I saw the inner workings and holding quarters of hundreds of animals.

    - North American zoos have drinking fountains all over their grounds, with free, clean, water that can be used for drinking immediately, or many zoos even have the water bottle dispensers so that a spout distributes free, clean water into a container at no charge. In European zoos, drinking fountains are basically non-existent and you either bring drinks from home (because some of the hand-washing taps in washrooms have non-potable water) or you pay a lot of money for tiny servings of drinks at the zoo.

    - European zoos have proper restaurants, with actual cutlery and plates rather than cheap plastic and paper plates and cutlery as is found in North American zoos. There is a better overall eating environment in Europe, with higher quality food and a more formal atmosphere. At times that was a bit annoying, as I just wanted to grab a burger and fries on the run, but in Europe it is customary for many zoo visitors to sit down and have a proper meal. Who cares if a whole zoo is seen in a day…tummies are grumbling for food!

    - North American zoos have more extensive reptile collections, with far more venomous snakes even at mid-sized zoos. However, I think that many of the vivariums in Europe were larger and of a higher quality for the inhabitants. Smaller collections, but an increased level of husbandry.

    - European zoos often have aquariums inside the grounds, an extremely rare feature of North American zoos. In fact, discounting stand-alone, separate public aquariums, I’ve only visited about a dozen zoos in all of North America that have an actual Aquarium on zoo grounds. Contrast that with my recent European trek, as all of these zoos either have full Aquariums or at the very least an aquarium ‘wing’ in a building: Berlin Zoo, Hagenbeck, Ouwehands, Blijdorp, Artis, Antwerp, Pairi Daiza, Frankfurt, Kolner, Wuppertal, Osnabruck, Munster, Duisburg and Burgers’ Zoo. In my whole lifetime I had visited approximately 12 zoos with full aquariums on the grounds, and now in the space of a month I visited at least 14 zoos with aquariums. Wow. The flip side is that it is extraordinary that zoo-rich nations such as Germany or the Netherlands lack a Shedd, Monterey Bay, Georgia, Baltimore or Tennessee, the ‘big five’ out of the approximately 160 public aquariums in the USA. Maybe there are so many aquariums inside zoos that there is no need for a huge stand-alone aquatic facility? On a side note, would the ‘big five’ aquariums in Europe be Valencia, Lisbon, Genoa, Blue Planet in Copenhagen and Nausicaa in the north of France? Has anyone on ZooChat visited all 5? Are there others to consider?

    - European zoos dominate their North American brethren in terms of walk-through exhibits. Out of close to 1,000 zoos in North America, there is a walk-through Squirrel Monkey enclosure at Phoenix Zoo, a lemur thing at Calgary Zoo and another lemur one in Omaha. I’ve been to all of those facilities more than once, but I’m struggling to think of a single other walk-through exhibit anywhere on the continent where primates can access the visitor pathway. Even the totally obscure zoo known as Affen + Vogelpark Eckenhagen (Monkey + Bird Park) in Germany had several walk-through primate exhibits. I was inside enclosures with various penguin species on the trip, but also Squirrel Monkeys, many tamarins and marmosets, White-faced Sakis, Red Howler Monkeys, several Barbary Macaque walk-through zones, Colobus at Munster Zoo, Wisent and Przewalski’s Horses at Naturrpark Lelystad, Harbour Seals, loads of vultures and even a Bateleur Eagle a few feet from my face at Berlin Zoo. The list could be endless and it’s all amazing to witness for the first time.

    Thoughts on any of that???
     
  7. Maguari

    Maguari Never could get the hang of Thursdays. 15+ year member Premium Member

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    Excellent post, one that I will digest a little before commenting in depth - but one thing that occurs right away:

    In terms of big cats (so Panthera spp.) I have only been to one that was mainly big cats and a proper home-made job in Europe - that was 'Biopark' Stit in the Czech Republic.

    The other memorably (visibly) shoddy zoos I've seen over here were mostly either limited to smaller/less dangerous animals (like de Paay) or zoos that clearly were built with some thought at the time, but just never modernised or maintained in the intervening decades (like the late, unlamented Lubeck - and arguably late-Gill-era South Lakes as well).

    That said, with more options so close together there's less of a reason to visit any that are likely to be bad - but it's notable that even your thoroughness struggled to fine more than one really bad zoo in the Netherlands.
     
    Last edited: 27 Aug 2019
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  8. Tim May

    Tim May Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    I agree that walk-through exhibits are much less common in North America than they are in Europe although Lowry Park Zoo is the only place where I've encountered a walk-through exhibit for royal antelope. (In fact it's the only zoo where I've seen the species since I saw one at London Zoo when I was a young child.)
    I recall that back in 1984, there were some walk-through monkey enclosures at the Monkey Jungle in Florida. It's thirty-five years since I visited there; is it still possible to walk-through some of the monkey exhibits?
     
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  9. jwer

    jwer Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Erm, If you really did your zootrip in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands I can almost guarantee that no zoo you encountered had non-potable water anywhere within reach of people.

    Everyone that would want water, would take it at toilets.
     
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  10. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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    As in people bring their pet dogs to the zoo? That sounds very strange to me. Isn't that introducing potential both for health and safety risks (to other visitors or to zoo animals) and also potential for the dogs to harass or frighten the animals?

    I've seen how some people use public drinking fountains... I think "clean" is an optimistic word to use! Those water bottle dispensers are great, though.

    There are instances where people share the same space as primates, but it isn't branded as a walk-through primate exhibit; for instance, in the tropical house at Fresno Chaffee Zoo the tamarins were sitting on the visitor boardwalk a few feet away with zero barriers. Fortunately there was a docent/staff member there, who was very knowledgeable and personable but I'm sure the monkeys were a big reason why she was there.

    My understanding (although I don't know for sure) is that the lack of primate walk-throughs is a product of how litigious the United States is (not sure about Canada). It's all too easy for a lawsuit to be brought against the zoo after some kid gets their fingers nipped. Then the zoo would have to pay legal fees, it would show up in the press, animal welfare groups like PETA would have a field day... a lot of headaches and costs that probably make it easier to just avoid the concept altogether.
     
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  11. DavidBrown

    DavidBrown Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Tim, here is a recent recap and review of Monkey Jungle by geomorph from early 2019 with descriptions of the species and exhibits: List of Species On Exhibit 3/16/19 [Monkey Jungle]

    It sounds like the former walk-though primate areas are now only seen through enclosures unless you pay extra for a guided tour through the squirrel monkey area.
     
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  12. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I've taken all my dogs to zoos plenty of times; never had a problem, never caused one. As previously mentioned: some zoo animals do appear to appreciate dogs as behavioral enrichment - in particular big cats.
    Taking your dog with you to the zoo (on a leash) is allowed in several zoos in various countries, including the aforementioned Germany, but also in some zoos in Austria or the Czech Republic. These zoos often charge extra for dogs. In general, the dogs tend to behave better than some of the human visitors (excluding excessive barkers and untrained dogs).
    And there are never more dogs than wild animals in the zoos, all exaggerations aside.
    What health risks should be considered?
    All in all, it's up to the individual zoo director to decide whether dogs are allowed in or not.
     
  13. Tim May

    Tim May Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    Thanks, David.
     
  14. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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    As a disclaimer to this post: I find this a really interesting side topic and I'm curious to know what other people think of it, so I would support this becoming a separate thread if the moderators think it necessary.

    By potential health risks, I was thinking of the possibility that a dog could somehow pass on a disease or parasites to a zoo animal. I'm sure that most dogs are properly vaccinated and groomed, but at least here in the US (maybe it's different there) it can't be assumed. As for the behavior of the dogs potentially upsetting the animals, I'm sure that the majority of cases don't result in that but as you said, excessive barkers and untrained dogs could still have an effect on more sensitive animals. Additionally, dogs in a zoo could lead to the presence of dog feces on the grounds. Again, while I'm sure most dog owners are responsible about picking this up, some won't be; this can introduce another disease vector and sanitation issue for the zoo, as well as denigrating the space in a potentially noticeable way.

    Of course, I'm also aware that humans pose a potentially greater health risk and disturbance to zoo animals (especially primates health-wise), but it's relatively easy to say "no dogs allowed" and eliminate those risks, while dealing with human-related risks can't really be dealt with in the same way.

    The behavioral enrichment point I actually hadn't considered and I agree that sounds like a benefit rather than a drawback.

    As someone who is not familiar with the practice, I'm curious what compels you and others to bring your furry companions to the zoo? Do you consider them just like family that come along for trips, or is it similar to taking them to the park? Personally, it sounds like an interesting experience but I don't think I'd want to spend my zoo time focusing on my animal instead of spending time watching the zoo's residents.
     
  15. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Since the dogs do not usually enter the exhibits (including the walk-through exhibits), there is little chance of a direct disease transfer. Cats, on the other hands, in particular free-ranging pets or strays that roam through the zoo, have the potential to transmit diseases that can be fatal to zoo animals (like toxoplasmosis for lemurs and pallas cats).
    They can, and I've seen my share of irresponsible dog owners in zoos. However, this tends to be a minuscle aspect in comparison to the already existing cacophony and general misbehavior by zoo visitors. And since many zoos are set in metropolitan areas, dog barking being heard from the immediate outside is almost a given. And probably less stressful than the noise of a nearby autobahn (Duisburg), football stadium (Krefeld), shooting range (Wolgast) or busy touristic area (Berlin).
    For me, it's both the aspect that the dog can stay with its "pack" and that it can engage with its owners in a stimulating activity together. Furthermore, it's always a bit of an animal welfare issue: if the dog can't be taken to the zoo, people tend to leave it alone at home for hours or even worse, leave it waiting inside the car on the parking lot. Which can, especially in warm weather and when no adequate ventilation is provided, quickly become a death trap for the dog. You wouldn't believe how many people do the latter every summer...
    It also depends on the individual dog and the zoo. I once had a dog that hated to have large crowds around her (and thus was rarely taken to the zoo), but enjoyed Tierpark Berlin.
    Once again, it depends on the individual dog. I currently own a big, calm dog with quite a laid-back, calm attitude despite being still rather young. Taking him to the zoo is far more relaxing for me than taking my little, very active kids along - which I have to do these days anyway ^^. At the moment, we're actually training him to drag the children's cart, so that I don't have to. ^^ To illustrate how this can look like:
    [​IMG]
    He appears to enjoy this activity, and so do my kids.
    An attractive dog also has the somehow funny effect that it can draw the attention of other fellow zoo visitors to it, leading to friendly social interactions with strangers and indirectly offering the chance to educate them about the zoo animals around them. That might not sound all too positive for introverts and busy "I have to see every exhibit / animal and thus have no time for this nonsense of interacting with zoo muggles" zoo fans( jk ;) ), but I've come to appreciate it (since it allows me to sneak in a little free advertisement for WdG now and then, hehehe). A large dog, on the other hand, can have the benefit of allowing you to quietly blaze a trail through crowds that obstruct your path, which is a great benefit for polite people like my wife. I just experienced this recently with a rather obnoxious large group of Arab tourists(?), who seemed to care little about the other visitors' sensitivities (or the stress excessive noise can have on zoo animals, as discussed above); my dog and I calmly parted their group like Moses the Red Sea, allowing other visitors to pass through behind us as well. Granted, I got my share of both angsty and hateful stares (which is almost a given when traditional muslims encounter my dog), but both my dog and I remained polite and friendly, aka "the Canadian way". ^^
    إنه مجرد كلب ، وليس وحشًا (It's just a dog, not a monster.)
    I hope this suffices as an explaination why I appreciate well-behaved dogs in zoos.
     
    Last edited: 31 Aug 2019
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  16. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    What's a "Kolner", btw? :D
     
  17. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Koln is the German for Cologne.
     
  18. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    I am fairly sure Batto will already know that, somehow :p
     
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  19. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Nope, that's Köln, and its inhabitants are Kölner, who speak Kölsch (the local dialect) to order Kölsch (the local beer) . There is no "Koln", and thus no "Kolner" nor "Kolsch" (beer or dialect). And as TLD correctly pointed out, there's little sense in (incorrectly) explaining a language to a native speaker...;)
     
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  20. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    More to the point it's a bit odd to call the zoo Kölner rather than Köln (which I presume was your actual point above)