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South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes discussion thread

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Nisha, 10 Jan 2015.

  1. bigcat speciali

    bigcat speciali Well-Known Member

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    Dave Gill just edited his post on FB

    "I built and then opened South Lakes Wild Animal Park Ltd on 28th May 1994, today almost 21 years later it has ended trading. From the amazing success of this unique zoo environment a new Zoo has arisen and developed. Tomorrow we are a new company and a new future. South Lakes SAFARI ZOO Ltd will bring you the very first SAFARI ZOO in the UK and continue with the unique , special and exciting adventure...... every day ! David S Gill"

    He built the zoo? Oh boy, his ego his flying tonight!
     
  2. Nisha

    Nisha Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    The owner - that's why :rolleyes:

    As well the events of May 2013 - I quote the following from the article below just to give you a taste of why South Lakes is one of the more controversial zoos on this site...

    The terrifying episode was only the latest in a string of colourful events involving Mr Gill. In 1997 a three-ton white rhino went on the rampage at the park and had to be shot dead. Mr Gill was fined £10,000 for failing to keep it adequately enclosed. Later that year he was exposed by a Sunday newspaper for having an affair with teenage zoo hand Shelley Goodwin, who had left school at 16 and begun looking after his kangaroos.
    His then wife left him, taking their two young children. Gill married Shelley but the pair have since separated. In 2001 Mr Gill was ordered to pay £30,000 to a pregnant zookeeper whom he had ordered to clamber up a 16ft pole to feed his tigers. Lara Kitson, 23, complained that scaling a ladder to leave raw meat for the big cats to retrieve at the attraction's daily feeding display put her baby at risk.

    Husband jailed for stabbing millionaire zoo owner after catching him in bed with his wife | Daily Mail Online
     
  3. garyjp

    garyjp Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    So the owner could be described as a maverick but would the world be better off without south lakes
     
  4. bigcat speciali

    bigcat speciali Well-Known Member

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    Have been given some information regarding Dave Gill and his South Lakes Safari Zoo which was placed my way. I am posting this information as I feel it has merit on this forum. The information comes by the way and by the travels of TripAdvisor. I know it is a well-used website but I am also aware that TripAdvisor has also numerous holes of inaccuracy. What I can say for sure is that South Lakes Wild Animal Park or Safari Zoo has a record of treating numerous visitors, especially those who are disabled, in a very poor manner. Many have aired their frustrations via the press and some also on TripAdvisor. However, Dave Gill, either ignores these concerns, he tries to sweet talk the customers with a free this or that, or he rebuffs the whole worry and then has the comments removed. Nothing new there, as we all know how he removes and deletes negative comments and reviews from his FB account. Now you know why he does not have a twitter account, far too many would tell him how it really is!

    I have screen grabbed the page as well as taken photographs of this page, as I am sure the ego-driven and very over-ranting Dave Gill will most likely try to have this review removed.

    Disgusted with the owner. NOT DISABLED ACCESSIBLE!!!!! - South Lakes Safari Zoo, Dalton-in-Furness Traveller Reviews - TripAdvisor

    "“Disgusted with the owner. NOT DISABLED ACCESSIBLE!!!!!”

    Reviewed 4 January 2015

    "Before I travelled 78 miles to the zoo I rang to check that the park was accessible for wheelchairs as my mum can't walk so is in an electric wheelchair. I was told yes that's fine it's TOTALLY wheelchair accessible. I thought oh great we will go for a final treat before my little girl starts back to school on Monday. It was an hour and half drive to the zoo so we was looking forward to arriving. We made a £20 donation on entry for 2 adults and a child and entered the park. Straight away it's a steep path down to the giraffe. We never actually got to see them as it wasn't accessible in the wheelchair. Going round the park it was almost impassible terrain in a wheelchair and very muddy so slippery. None of the animals were out and my mum couldn't get to the windows to see them as the gravel and inclines where too much. I had to push my mum up the hills in the ELECTRIC wheelchair as not even that could make it up the incline. Whilst coming out of the bat house and coming back down the hill my mums scooter just slid all the way down crashing into the fencing at the bottom. Luckily a family managed to jump out of the way or they would of been crushed against the fence. My mum who is 64 and has a heart condition was very shook up after this so we decided to leave after just an hour on the park. After all we couldn't see anything anyway. I wanted to speak to the manager about the incident so headed to the cafe. I was speaking to a manager when this very rude man interrupted us. Turns out he's the prat that built the place. He stood arguing with me in the cafe stating we should never of gone up to the bat house as we had a wheelchair. Tried explaining I was told the park was TOTALLY wheelchair accessible. He said there were anti slip mats to prevent such things happening and wouldn't be told different. I was so so angry by this point. This Idiot didn't have a clue what had happened and wasn't interested in listening. Didn't even ask if my mum was ok. We stormed up to where it happened for me to be proved right, there was no anti slip mats down. Tried saying there are signs warning people in wheelchairs but when I asked where these signs were he couldn't find any. I came to the park in good faith that my mum would be able to get around, instead we leave early after he threatened to get me arrested and told to leave the park. I got my £20 donation back but that doesn't fix the damage made to my mums scooter or the effects of seeing my mum rolling down a hill not being able to stop has had on myself and my 5 yr old daughter. Never again will I step foot through them gates again nor support the prat that runs it. He's a Mr know it all that knows **** all in reality." by Lauren E.

    “Very Disappointing”

    Reviewed 4 January 2015

    "After a 2hr journey, our group of 10 arrived at 11am to be faced with a queue of people all down the hill. We stood for one hour with a member of staff telling us to stay in the right hand queue as we had pre bought tickets via Groupon. Once we finally reached the park entrance, others customers, also with vouchers, began to form a 2nd queue to the left and were pushing in front of those of us who had queued for an hour. There were no staff around to instruct and direct these queues and families began to argue with one another in the queues - very upsetting for the children to hear.
    Once in the park we were presented with our tickets to Santa and the Nativity - at 15.40. We asked if there was anything earlier as we had to travel back to Blackpool for my brother to begin work at 17.00. We were told no this was all there was. After some discussion, we were told by Amanda that we could get the children's Christmas presents that we had paid for previously but we would be unable to watch the nativity or visit Santa. Cue 5 very upset children all very upset and crying that there hopes of visiting Santa were dashed!
    Lunchtime was just as frustrating. After ordering food we waited 70 mins for it to arrive - we even went back round into the cafe to buy the children sandwiches whilst they were waiting for the hot food to arrive. After asking for an explanation we were told there was a 45 minute wait for food - something we had never been told when ordering!
    The ice skating was also too small - and far too busy for the smaller children to skate safely on.
    In total today we spent £40 on admission and £55 on food plus the fuel of two cars! For such an expensive day all we were left with was 5 upset, weary and hungry children! I am so disappointed that a day we have looked forward to for so long ended in such upset. I understand that it as a busy time of year but the management and organisation of the zoo today was just a shambles. I feel we were left short changed by having pre paid our tickets as we could have just made a smaller donation on the door and obviously we never got to see the nativity or Santa that we had paid to do. The happiness and excitement of today was taken away by the way the zoo was run.
    I have since emailed them twice to share my disappointment and had no reply.
    Visited December 2014" By amyw4116
     
  5. bigcat speciali

    bigcat speciali Well-Known Member

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    What difference does a name change make, it's still the same place!
     
  6. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    I think this is supposed to be a news thread, not a "repeating gripes we have all heard a hundred times before" thread - especially when they appear to be driven by personal reasons. Try to keep it to news.
     
  7. dublinlion

    dublinlion Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    At last, a voice of reason.

    My problem with the "critics" of this zoo and its owner, is the apparent unfairness and personal nature of the complaints.
    Does anybody on here really care about the alleged adulterous affairs or obvious spoofing/boasting attitudes of zoo directors.
    I am almost expecting BCS et al, to inform us (with gutter press backup) that this guy "once shouted at a shop assistant or sh.t his trousers after eating fast food" or some other heinous crime of this nature.
    ps
    Its like reading Viz comics.
     
  8. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Yes- clearly.

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  9. dublinlion

    dublinlion Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    So ,this is why this Zoo is bad? I'm not a big fan of adultery, but was not aware that it was a crime in the UK these days.
     
  10. zooboy28

    zooboy28 Well-Known Member

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    Selective reading much? Adultery is irrelevant to the zoo, but the rhino incident was clearly a major incident, as was the death of a keeper, and the many animal escapes. Obviously such incidents have happened at other zoos too, but few (especially in the UK) can claim this level of recent incompetence.
     
  11. bigcat speciali

    bigcat speciali Well-Known Member

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    According to the OED, the definition of "news" is:

    "Newly received or noteworthy information, especially about recent events

    A broadcast or published report of news

    Information not previously known to (someone)

    A person or thing considered interesting enough to be reported in the news

    Origin: late Middle English: plural of new, translating Old French noveles or medieval Latin nova 'new things."

    Ergo; the comments posted are seen as being "news" however, some opinions may be gripes but I do not see "personal reasons" just a general consensus of an overall selection of views.
     
  12. taun

    taun Well-Known Member

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    Please visit, it is the only zoo I have been worried about my own safety while visiting. And I was at Twycross when a chimp escaped (albeit into a secure kitchen area which we did not know at the time).

    Yes this is my opinion, others may feel differently.

    Only way to form your own opinion is to visit, I'll admit I do like the collection of animals it houses and was extremely disappointed when the Mandrills left.
     
  13. Shorts

    Shorts Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I'd argue that the "news" also has to be relevant and would emphasise your point about it being new information.

    I've got no problem calling South Lakes/Gill on husbandry/zoo management decisions, that's fine, but on occasion is does seem that there's a mob mentality queuing up to be the "righteous people" kicking the "baddie" (see Tw*tter et al).

    Examples of this would be:

    1. Attacking the guys, admittedly plant-size, ego -it's not news anymore, we all know about it. Can anyone stand up and honestly say there haven't been other over-sized egos, recently and historically, in the zoo sector (especially the privately owned side);

    2. His philandering -it's really not really directly relevant to a zoo debate any more than discussing his sexuality might be. Everyone, rightly, criticised him for his homophobic outburst but there's a little hypocrisy in then attacking his own sexual choices. Firstly, when people have affairs no-one really knows the true facts (who's "right" and who's "wrong") and secondly I'd imagine quite a few posters know/have known people who have cheated on partners (or have cheated themselves) and don't necessarily exclude them as friends because, hey, life's complicated. Finally, does anyone out there think that no other, current and historic, zoo owners/staff have done similar things? We don't have to think too hard to answer that and I think we'd conclude that some of those individuals achieved good and great things;

    3. Hyperbole -yes it's OK to call out exaggeration and untruths used in the name of publicity but let's not forget pretty much all modern zoos are guilty of this to one extent of another and let's not waste too much time on the trivial examples. In my opinion, questioning their uniqueness re pole feeding is valid but attacking their general claim to "uniqueness" or being the first safari zoo (that's just semantics) is a bit pointless -a large number of zoos claim, mostly incorrectly, something about them is unique. Paignton claim to be "King of Zoos" but most people let it lie.

    Also, for the sake of balance, let's remember Gill does have some positive achievements:

    1. He had the foresight to set up and develop a medium sized zoo at a time no-one else was doing so (i.e. proved it could still be done);
    2. He was an early adopter of free-ranging/walk-through lemurs and large kangaroos. I know there's problems (and yes criticise the problems) but don't we want a few risk takers and innovaters?
    3. He went into bears when no-one else was and everyone was moving out of them. I sometimes wonder if he, in some small way, led to bears becoming more common in UK zoos again;
    4. As far as I know (happy to be corrected) he pioneered the use, in the UK, of hot-wires to contain bears;
    5. He brought a zoo to people a long way from a zoo and has probably brought more outsiders to Dalton-in-Furness than anything else in recent years.

    The ying-yang, in all "bad" there is some "good" and vice versa.

    In conclusion, I'd like to state I'm no apologist for Gill (his misadventures in mixed-species exhibits are beyond innovation and well into the realm of hare-brained) but would hope information posted is new and relevant to any debate. I'd also wish that people would consider whether he's unique in some of his "wrongful" actions or they're merely kicking a man when he's down for something others have done and not been called on.

    Sure criticise him (he deserves some) but try to keep it meaningful, it makes your arguments more rational and strengthens them.
     
  14. Big Rob

    Big Rob Well-Known Member

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    Why did you fear for your safety taun?
    Did you raise your concerns with the management?

    I have only attended once,and never felt un-safe. I was extremely wary when one of the emus brushed right past my better half whilst close to the walk-through aviary,very large bird with very sharp claws on feet= keep your distance,but I wouldn't have stayed and put myself or loved ones somewhere I didn't feel safe.
    Some of this "Safari zoos" enclosures leave a great deal to be desired,and I would hate to think of the state of some of the paddocks at this time of year,but I wouldn't class anything as been un-safe for visitors.
    ( I must add I haven't been since the new Jaguar,Lion or wolf enclosures have been up and running. I know there have been some concerns shown regarding the height of the Jaguar fence,and proximity of the accommodation building to the fence.)
     
  15. garyjp

    garyjp Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    that might be for other reasons which i wouldnt really want o post on an open forum
     
  16. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I know its probably chiefly a Marketing ploy, but what is a 'Safari Zoo' anyway? Just a more exciting-sounding name? And hasn't SL been marketed/described as a 'Safari Zoo' for some time already?:confused:
     
  17. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I fully agree what Shorts has exceptionally well put into words here. Give fair criticism where it is due, but please have it in a balanced way for goodness sake! Over and above (ALL); Opinions are just that and not equal to news nor B/W truth! Let us be honest that of the latter variety - real news - there has been little or none on this particular thread!

    Please let the bucket stop here!
     
  18. bigcat speciali

    bigcat speciali Well-Known Member

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    Point 1: Other people were also doing the same.
    Point2: Early adopter of free-range/walk through exhibits, again other collections were doing it prior to Dave Gill.
    Point3: He went into bears. No he did not and other collections were still doing it. Camperdown and Glasgow, just two of the many that were still into bears.
    Point4: Dave Gill did not pioneer the hot wire for bears, rhino and other animals. That is just a myth and ego story from Gill himself and was told to stop it, even saying to everyone that he pioneered the tiger feeding pole, when in fact it was Glasgow. There are many UK collections that can show that they were doing such prior to Dave Gill.
    Point5: Other animal collections were as close to the area of Cumbria and Dalton.

    We know how Gill's mind operates and we know how big his ego drive with all of his spin and "i did this and that" is. We know how problematic South Lakes has been and still is. I also agree with Pertinax on this matter of how this new company and whatever is chiefly a Marketing ploy. And yes, hasn't SL been marketed/described as a 'Safari Zoo' for some time already? Indeed, that is the case but the many Gill followers don't really care as they idolise him anyway.
     
  19. Shorts

    Shorts Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Point 1: Who was setting up a zoo at the same time and has grown it to the size of South Lakes, I can't think of any;
    Point 2: I'm not saying he was the first to "do" lemur & kangaroo walk-throughs, but he was amongst the earliest;
    Point 3: Although some collections had bears they had held historically around the same time and still do (have Camperdown ever been out in recent history) they weren't going into them, I believe he was against the flow when he went into them, no-one else really was;
    Point 4: Who in the UK was using hot wires for bears prior to Gill? Were Glasgow (as I can't think of any others);
    Point 5:The nearest sizeable zoo is a long way away, "Trotters" is 50 miles and 90 minutes away and Blackpool is similar in terms of travel time.

    Finally, do you ever post anything positive and/or about other places?
     
  20. Nanook

    Nanook Well-Known Member

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    He is much more than a maverick - he is an idiot.
    And yes, we don`t really need South Lakes.

    It is clear that those who want to defend Mr Gill really don`t know a thing about him or his zoo.
    He will always be criticised (certainly by me) until he changes (which is highly unlikely!) As others have said, he brings it all on himself.