South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes discussion thread

I do understand your point, but unfortunately, as I am sure you fully appreciate, any news from South Lakes is also quite likely to attract a degree of criticism anyway.

 

Its not just the height that is an issue for me with the Jaguar enclosure,its the fact that with little or no effort the viewing windows can be made,to rock a distant of about 2-3 inches at the top of the fence,have to say that this is the only places where I have ever been able to do that with a Jaguar enclosure!

 

And I don't think I'm incorrect in saying that Jaguars are probably one of the last species you'd want to figure out that the fence rocks....

~Thylo

 

Is this a prediction?

When I watch a ship sail towards the horizon, it all becomes clear zz z.
.z
.z

 

Tape measure? Viz again.

There's enough material on this thread to make a full length comedy feature film, titled "Carry on of the zoo bottom inspectors"......

 

Well very funny reply,but then I would expect nothing else from somebody that has never visited,and has no idea of just how dangerous an animal an escaped Jaguar is!!!

Alas I suggest you visit,unless of course you are yorik in which case,you know it all any and we should all hail your great knowledge,that which nobody else on here has,even those that are zoo professional!!!!!!

 

@ Zg, I always read your very earnest opinions with interest, as they seem to be based on an obsession (which I share) that things could be better in some of these zoos.
But it is a mistake to think that 'all' current and ex keepers are knowledgeable or wise, although some indeed are, I'm sure.

 

Its obvious this is a zoo and an owner that causes a lot of controversy . Whether your pro or against any publicity is good publicity . Personally I would have thought there were more interesting things to discuss

 

In reply to Shorts who said:

"Point 1: Who was setting up a zoo at the same time and has grown it to the size of South Lakes, I can't think of any;
Point 2: I'm not saying he was the first to "do" lemur & kangaroo walk-throughs, but he was amongst the earliest;
Point 3: Although some collections had bears they had held historically around the same time and still do (have Camperdown ever been out in recent history) they weren't going into them, I believe he was against the flow when he went into them, no-one else really was;
Point 4: Who in the UK was using hot wires for bears prior to Gill? Were Glasgow (as I can't think of any others);
Point 5:The nearest sizeable zoo is a long way away, "Trotters" is 50 miles and 90 minutes away and Blackpool is similar in terms of travel time.

Finally, do you ever post anything positive and/or about other places?"


Point 1: You will find a list of zoos in reference to your question within The Bartlett Society Closed collections - The Bartlett Society There are indeed other animal collections that started up on or before or just near to when SLWAP started, and some have managed to come close or even grow greater than SLWAP. Just because you can’t think of any does not there are none.

Point 2: Previous other animal collections within the UK, within Europe, were way ahead of SLWAP regarding walk through exhibits. You will find part of your question was answered in zoochat via http://www.zoochat.com/38/why-no-walk-throughs-free-roaming-281439/ Blackpool has given a good article within International Zoo News International Zoo News Vol. 47/8 (No. 305) many zoos and safari parks had kangaroo walk through and mixed exhibits that were ahead of SLWAP. Gill was not an “innovator”, but he was a high risk taker. He was a very dangerous fool when it comes to risks and being off-the-cuff personality is a very dangerous one at that, somewhat detached if not deranged. Dave Gill was not amongst the earliest, actually, you will find he has copied (like many others have done as well) from other collections that were doing it before him.

Point 3: Collections that went in with bears, including Aspinall and his parks are again known. Dave Gill did not lead the way or have any instrumental touch regarding bears becoming more common in zoos within the UK, that’s just utter mince. Likewise, I am sure Doug Richardson would back up what I am saying and give a better account, especially with his specialist knowledge of bears, especially from working at Rome Zoo. When Glasgow held the Conference Proceedings of “Bears: Their Status, Conservation & Welfare in Captivity” 1994, we gave many accounts of how hot-wire or electric fencing was used. Page 47 of those proceeding’s has a four page article on such fencing. You also have Highland Wildlife Park; Jersey Wildlife Preservation Trust; Glasgow Zoo; numerous workshops covering various topics inkling hot wires, from various zoos. Only idiots and daft people go in with bears and carnivores to show off or to “hey look everyone, I am in with the bears” attitude. Oh, and just remember Gill was photographed riding his Rhino, the same one which escaped. The Management and Behaviour of Captive Polar Bears; Alison Ames, 2000 (if you want a copy, the going price for the booklet is £300 plus), again this also covers various zoos etc. from various dates, prior to Dave Gill. When I worked with the polar bears at Edinburgh, when the cub was born back in the mid1980s, hot wires were used. Dave Gill has nothing whatsoever to do with bears being more common and seen within UK zoos and as for going in with them, the rules, and laws which Gill still does not have a clue about, are there fo a good reason.

Point 4: Dave ill did not “pioneer” hot-wires for bears within the UK, again that’s just utter nonsense. Dave Gill has this fantasy that he “pioneered” many things within the zoo industry however, we call all agree that he has not and did not “pioneer” anything, anything but supply his own ego with a flair for hot wind. Edinburgh had hot-wires for the Barbary macaques, bears, rhino and some others which I can remember whilst I worked their back in the mid to late 1980s. Glasgow was the same as well as Blackpool and others. I am sure keepers from those collections who worked or have knowledge of this will speak up. Zoocheck wrote an article regarding the drawbacks of electric fences, naming Jersey Zoo with dates prior to Dave Gill setting up his South Lakes park.

Point 5: You mention how the nearest sizable zoos are a long way off, quoting 50 and 90 miles. Come of it, that’s not far, are you having a laugh?
Do I post anything positive and/or about other places? Yes, of course I do, but I feel you have an air of humbug and disquiet about you.

You posted the following: “I've got no problem calling South Lakes/Gill on husbandry/zoo management decisions, that's fine, but on occasion is does seem that there's a mob mentality queuing up to be the "righteous people" kicking the "baddie" (see Tw*tter et al).”

The reason why there is a “mob mentality” as you so put it; is frankly down to the manner, the hopeless mechanism of Gill is “the master of the universe” and the amount of utter nonsense the man gives out. It is like he actually wants everyone talking about him, even if it is for the wrong reasons. We know Gill is an idiot, a fool, and a very dangerous person. We all know that he has done some criminal wrongs as well as continue to break every rule in the book. I and others have posted news from Dave Gill and his park or zoo or safari zoo or whatever he wants to call it, this news has come from Dave Gill and from his park. All we are doing is discussing what he has mentioned. I believe we should have an opinion and the ability to share it, but also to do so in a non-confrontational manner. However, this can be difficult at times and with topics or subjects which cover places and people who we all know have a previous distaste and which leaves a bad sour-like taste on the tongue; then it can be hard to refrain from talking ill of hat person or place. It’s normal and it’s human.

Dublinlion sounds more like yorick's alter ego, his other half. It is noted that Dublinlion threw the baby out of the bath regarding “neutral” and that “it does not come across as balanced criticism” Others have tried to keep to the news however, there does seem to be a thread of disagreement from one or two. That’s fine and well. But it would be a tragedy and a wrong to see this thread dive down, deteriorate and or to close or be deleted. The news is up for discussion and the discussion is the news. Tomato is tam at o, potato is pa tat o. Likewise, let’s keep it all friendly and civil. Now let’s have group hug….

 

BCS:

1. Yes, I can't think of any collections that started at a similar time to South Lakes but you're not naming any either Referencing closed collections (none of which I can think attained South Lakes size and then failed) doesn't really make your point. Can you specifically name any?

2. Again, I stress he wasn't the first to open these type of walk-throughs in the UK but if you want to list them (let's not waste our time) I'm fairly sure he'll be in the first 20%;

3. I think there's a misunderstanding here. I'm using the phrase "going into bears" as commencing keeping them not going into the enclosures with them -that would be stupid (I know Aspinall did it and nearly died as a result but wasn't aware that Gill had done the same, is that what you're saying? ). My point is South Lakes began keeping bears when no other collections were starting to keep bears when they previously hadn't -at the time UK collections didn't seem to have the stomach for keeping bears and many were happy to transfer bears out or cease keeping them on deaths. I'm not saying other places weren't keeping them, merely that the general flow was against keeping them and South Lakes went against that flow. It is, however, a fair point that Scottish collections (thankfully) never really went out of bears like the rest of the UK did, respect!

4. Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of earlier adoption of hot-wires for bears (to be fair I've never heard of Gill championing his pioneering nature on this, it was my point). At the point of South Lakes using the technique I'd not really traveled to other more far-flung (for me) places that were adopting it -every day's a school day. One point though, you mention Blackpool who, as far as I'm aware, have never kept bears.

5. Ninety minutes might not be far for a zoo enthusiast but it's a long way for a more casual visitor with two small children in the car . If it wasn't a big deal I'm sure a lot more collections would have thrived more than they have done (Whipsnade and Howletts come to mind) -though I appreciate visitor numbers aren't just related to traveling distances.

"Humbug and disquiet" nice turn of phrase (genuinely) and I'm not denying the accusation (they are facets of my personality) but I'd argue I'm actually being positive with my points and I think there might be a little of the pot calling the kettle there.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are some positive results of Gill's actions (even if they may be far outweighed by negative ones). Let's face it, he must be doing some things right to have the number of "fanatical" supporters (misguided though they may be) that he does. The bigger point I was originally trying to make was if people are going to criticise then stick to the relevant (serious) facts rather than get petty and attack his ego, hyperbole and sexual habits (cheap shots).

As for DublinLion, I'll leave him to defend himself. Personally, whilst I think he's got kernels of valid points in the mix (about the herd mentality) he's a little too strident for one that's never visited the place. I think he's at one polar extreme and you the other -it seems that he can't accept any criticism of the place and you can't accept any good. A plague on both your houses (with a warm hug from me to each of you).

 

Alas poor Yorik,I feel that there is no point in saying any more,as it does seem that you fail to believe that there is any chance that the criticism of this place,has any valid point,as you seem to think that we are all wrong,and that only the great Yorik aka Mr Gill himself,is the only person that can be right about the place!!!

 

We live IN the South Lakes. South Lakes IS the nearest zoo BY FAR.

Trotters/Lake District Wildlife park is a lovely small collection it is 45mins on the only road the runs right through the Lake District. While we enjoy it, it doesn't have the big 'thrill' animals of SLWAP and many people overlook it. It is great for young children, but many people would not put small children in a car and travel that distance to see a few animals.

Blackpool is great but is a good hour and 15-30 mins depending on traffic. I think that a lot of local people go to SLWAP because it is simply the nearest zoo. We go to Blackpool and Chester a couple of times a year because for us it is worth the Journey. SLWAP is on a road that runs to Barrow in Furness and then the West Coast of Cumbria, where there is very little. The zoo does bring a lot of revenue to Dalton.

It is well known in the community, that you can get into SLWAP for half price with a tesco/asda reciept. If you live in Cumbria and hold a My Cumbria card, you get in for half price. I believe another reason many local people go is because it is a cheap day out. We went to chester Zoo recently and it cost us over £50. SLWAP costs us just over £20 for a family of three.

While I tire of Gill's rants, which are unprofessional, the Zoo is half an hour away and there is a good selection of animals. Ok, some of the enclosures do need serious attention in my opinion. Surely there can't be many zoos that hold wolves, tiger, lions, jaguar and sri lankan leopard?

I do hope that one day the zoo will be sold and it will turn into a better park in terms of animal enclosures, and that the rants will stop. However, I don't see that happening anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

A heartfelt observation from a local. I guess a lot of people would be happy with that outcome. The result being the South Lakes area kept its biggest animal collection and major tourist attraction, but on a more professionally run basis with no more outbursts, court cases, lurid/salacious publicity,(less) animal escapes etc. The Zoo world can but live in hope perhaps.

 

I shall agree on that and rightfully said. If SLWAP was to grow up and behave, more so that of Dave Gill. To accept that there is negativity and to publish it, also publish on how to help fix the negative problems, then that will go a long way in bringing a new shine to the collection. Better still, if Gill was to retire, go off to his ranch as he keeps saying he going to do and give the park over to more experienced and professional people, then personally I believe he could then save the park and its doomed reputation.

 

Hear, hear!

 

Strident!! Like Dame Edna? ha ha ha.

I am pleased to see this topic opening up a bit, with more mature and balanced observations, and ZG's inspirational quoting from 'Hamlet'.

 

Did you miss mine? (Romeo & Juliet, not Hamlet)

Then again 50%'s a grade A mark nowadays isn't it?

 

Children now 'free' with Adults remaining £5 'donation' - though surely if the entry is a donation they should let you in regardless of what you pay?!

"From today ALL CHILDREN 16 and UNDER come into the SAFARI ZOO for FREE.
ADULTS are a minimum donation of £5 per person until further notice.
open EVERYDAY from 10am until 4.30pm"

https://www.facebook.com/SouthLakesWildAnimalPark?fref=nf