Species you hate to see in zoos

Personally I know I'm looking forward to the PETA-backed reintroduction of captive born elephants into the wild, a group which we all know lacks emotional complexity and has never been kept in unnatural or unfit environments, or used as circus animals ever in the history of them being kept in human care

~Thylo

 

The only evidence I've asked for is that there have been successful breeding programs leading to increasing the wild population. Everyone has supplied a lot of theory (most of which I actually accept and I've also accepted that good research is being done) but can't answer my question because it's never happened.

I've also admitted - under pressure - that much of my feelings about Cetaceans is an emotional reaction and I've justified that by saying that if I as a zoo enthusiast feel that way, then surely many others of the zoo-going public who don't understand about captive breeding as an aid to conservation, will feel the same way.

Your desire to prove 'natural behaviours' is a little bizarre, because if animals have all their needs catered for and breed in captivity for many generations, then that means they are satisfied in their captive environment - and yes, I know that Cetaceans breed regularly in captivity but with what ultimate aim?

You are asking me to cite specific examples, but I can't see the point. In the corner of the world I live in (and in the many collections I've visited) captive animals go about their lives successfully breeding and not exhibiting stereotyped or behaviour that indicates they are stressed. All the sun bears in Australian collections for example are rescue animals that come from appalling conditions in their native countries and so far the breeding record is fairly good, which means they are settled. I'm not sure what else you want me to say quite honestly since you've clearly visited many collections - how often do you see stressed, unhappy animals in captivity?

Finally, I've also conceded that my view on this subject might change in future. I used to be strongly opposed to Polar Bears in captivity, but having seen the advances in their captive environments in many zoos, I've revised my opinion.

 

I think this has likely had a major effect on the attitude about whales in captivity. I haven't seen that documentary. Documentaries can be pretty powerful.

 

This has not happened for 99% of the taxa kept in captivity.

This is just saying that the majority who agrees with your viewpoint are the majority that is least education on zoos and their roles in conservation...

Yo-- You're--- You're the one who's been harping on about 'natural behaviors' while never explaining what exactly you mean by that and which behaviors you want to see expressed but aren't. What ultimate aim? What's the ultimate aim for captive elephants? Gorillas? Meerkats? Lions? The Goura taxa? All of these animals are kept and bred in zoos and yet have never been nor plan to be successfully reintroduced into the wild.

Convenient... "You COULD prove my point if I wanted to, but I just can't be bothered."

I do not understand your point here? Is it that Australian zoos are better than zoos in all other countries? I've never been to Australia (hope to go as soon as possible) but I find it hard to believe that no animals in captivity there exhibit any kind of stereotypical behaviors, especially in animals like bears where stereotypical behaviors can be linked to traumatic upbringing/poor housing conditions in their past. Stereotyping is not a definitive measure of an animal's quality of life at a zoo, because stereotyping can be a result of many, many different issues that may not even have anything to do with the collection they're currently kept at.

Also how come it's ok for animals to be kept in better zoos when rescued from poorer ones but the same doesn't apply to cetaceans? If more cetaceans were moved to facilities like Harderwijk, Discovery Cove, and Mystic would their keeping of cetaceans still be criticized?

And as a side, I'm fairly certain all (if not it's definitely most) of the Sun Bears kept in Europe and the US are rescues.

~Thylo

 

Thank you. I accept your far superior knowledge of the situation and of issues associated with zoos in general and that I have nothing of value to offer this community. You can rest assured I will not be commenting in discussion forums in future

 

Well, that escalated quickly. Which seems to be all too common when it comes to the controversial topic of cetacea in captivity.
Let's just hope nobody here comes in suggesting to ban bats or snakes from zoos.

 

Yes a shame really. I've had personal messages from two young zoochat members who are now scared off from expressing opinions in discussion forums.

 

I've had private messages of support since the whole thing kicked off which has been most reassuring and I will soon continue to contribute. I love this website and it provides access to so much expertise, especially in identifying my photos so I wouldn't like to have to take on the role of outsider. Thank you for your edifying comments and at this point it hasn't changed my opinion on the Cetacean subject.

 

It takes two to tango, and I'm no position to absolve you of anything.
Regarding the two allegedly scared anonymous newcomers: some topics are more controversial and emotionally charged than others; cetaceans husbandry is probably one of the "hotter" topics, next to white tigers, PETA, euthanasia of surplus animals or anything involving particular major American or British zoos and their fan base. Sooner or later, you will run into someone with a different opinion; even on this rather uniform forum. That's part of life, and nothing to be afraid of.

 

Nice sentiment, but I don't need 'absolving' of anything and I'm quite prepared to carry on - and despite the vitriol my opinion on the subject hasn't changed. Thankfully I'm not someone with the sort of ego that needs constant massaging to keep on top of things.

 

This is no battle and nothing to win or lose. I've no quarrel with you, and I intend to keep it that way. Just be warned that this kind of attitude tends to result in deleted posts and threads.

 

Acknowledged and respected

 

I hate the ignorant visitors.

 

As someone who lives within their native range, I don't like to see White-tailed Deer in zoos. They require a lot of space and they are as common as dirt in the wild. Usually wild White-tailed Deer can easily be seen at any zoo that keeps them.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a wild White-Tailed Deer on zoos ground, though I have seen wild Mule Deer at SDZSP. White-Tailed Deer in zoos are almost always wild rescues, it's not as if zoos are actively breeding them.

~Thylo

 

I've seen them at a few zoos - most notably Smithsonian, where the wild population is fairly well known - but I always enjoy seeing them. They're beautiful animals.

 

I would go as far as to say I usually see wild White-tailed Deer at zoos. I don't think I've ever seen a rescue deer either, they are almost always animals purchased from the private trade.

 

I must admit that part of my hatred for deer in zoos comes from the fact that the overpopulation of White-tailed Deer is causing terrible problems to the ecosystem and I see them pretty much everywhere I go. They're one of the only animals I truly dislike. It doesn't help that I've visited Bruemmer Park Zoo, either.

 

I don dislike whitetail, but whenever I see them along the road or whatever I immediately think of how overpopulated they are thanks to human activity, which takes a lot of the excitement out.