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Speculative Burger's zoo project

Discussion in 'Speculative Zoo Design and Planning' started by Mr Gharial, 6 Feb 2021.

  1. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Burger's Safari - Aviaries
    Burgers Safari - Wetland aviaries.png

    The safari expansion will also include three huge aviaries. Two large wetland aviaries, and one vulture aviary

    The Larger wetland aviary is huge, almost exactly the same size as Snavelrijk in Amersfoort dierenpark (based on a rough comparison on Google Maps), and bigger than the current mangrove dome.
    About 3000m² (32291.73ft²)

    The shoebill walkthrough might seem risky, but it's been done before in way smaller aviaries (Kobe animal kingdom, Nasu animal kingdom)
    Kobe animal kingdom: Google Maps
    Nasu animal kingdom: https://www.japanhoppers.com/en/kanto/nasu_shiobara/kanko/1413/

    The smaller Wetland aviary is still walkthrough, but to a much lesser extent. More similar to the one at zoo tampa lowry park (that wasn't walkthrough, but it will look about the same with the pier being the only path)
    Safari Africa - Enormous Aviary - See 2 Shoebill Storks? - ZooChat

    There's a large amount of smaller birds that can fly between the two aviaries freely (the middle box of bird names)

    The vulture aviary is also walkthrough, but to a lesser extent, More similar to Diergaarde Blijdorp (Which is called "Rotterdam zoo" in ZooChat for some reason), with a fence around most of the path, as well as the larger section being covered.
    Google Maps
    As well as being similar to most aviaries at Beekse Bergen
    African wetland walk-into aviary, 2019-09-15 - ZooChat
    (You can sort-of make it out in the background. I swear I'll take better pictures of everything I'm referencing once the country opens up again and it's a little warmer outside)

    On top of the covered region, however. There is also a raised viewing platform. Which is accessable from the bottom of the covered region via a staircase, or via a ramp form outside the enclosure. Also similar to one of the aviaries at Beekse Bergen
    Greater flamingo and African spoonbill aviary, 2019-09-15 - ZooChat

    Burgers Safari - Wetland aviaries (Commersial version).png
     
  2. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    A proper description of Burgers Woods will take a little while. It's huge, with a huge amount of animals and lots of semi-regions. Plus, translating it will be a real pain in the Equus africanus.

    By the way, does anyone know of any fish being able to safely go with the crocs?
     
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  3. chaotic_froggie

    chaotic_froggie Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the croc, bigger crocodiles can live with small fish and small crocodiles can sometimes live with larger herbivorous fish, though both are a bit risky.
     
  4. Ursus

    Ursus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    personally do not agree with the changes to the Safari, you filled up the map too much leaving too little space for plant growth and the natural atmosphere Burgers' aims to create.
     
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  5. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Well, the enclosures aren't fully scaled. And there's still plenty plant life in between the enclosures, as well as inside them. And in case of the hyrax and squirrel enclosures, also on top

    Safari.png

    This is still a rough sketch, the open spaces still have lower shrubbery
     
  6. Ursus

    Ursus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I have a question.

    How realistic do you aim for this project of yours to be? And how much critism/feedback would you like to get?
     
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  7. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to make it as realistic as possible. Though I know it's impossible for Burgers Zoo to take any of this seriously, as well as the unavailability of pangolins, shoebills, kiwis, tuataras, blue iguanas and perenties. There is zero percent chance Burgers Zoo will build another dome, let alone three. The night houses are unrealistic even for some of the craziest zoos, and taking out the oldest and beloved part of the zoo is a crime.
     
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  8. Ursus

    Ursus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Eitherway, if you say yourself some of these are unrealistic, whilst aiming to be realistic, wouldn't you agree it would be more fit to alter the plans to make them more realistic?
     
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  9. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Well, how would you make it more realistic?
     
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  10. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I like the way in which you have still taken into account the existing zoo's framework, but I think a more measured approach in the way you are redesigning the zoo would be a better idea - while I agree it is enjoyable to dream of a whole host of animals arriving and lots on new and flashy infrastructure being built, it is simply not going to happen. And while a more realistic approach may not seem as fun, in the long term it is more fulfilling in my opinion.
     
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  11. Ursus

    Ursus Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    As annoying as it may sound, I would start over from scratch.

    And here is the why and what I would do instead:

    One main problem I notice within your designing that doesn't feel very Burgers' their style to me is how there's exhibits everywhere. Burgers' keeps their exhibits quite loose from others and not really attach many back to back to one other. They also leave room for the forest their located in to make sure this forest can also still grow and find its ways, they really value their natural environment.

    Burgers' Zoo designs through Ecosystems/biomes, not continental locations. Keep this in mind as you go. Settle Australia for example on either the lush tropical environment, the shrublands or the desert areas. There's plenty of choice, and then base animals options on those environments. Burgers' themes heavily ''Geographic'' when possible, the rest is all within ''Park'' as you may notice.

    For animal choices look at what is available, and then pick the most endangered species preferably. Refrain from choosing too many ''rare'' species with only 1 to 3 holders. Keep a balance within what is more common and rare. For example take 2 rarer doves and then have some common finches and parrots to go alongside it. Burgers' doesn't do all too many reptiles, amphibians and insect species. So if you want to choose some, pick only a few. Think of how the Desert did it, they have 3 invertebrate species, a lizard, a toad and 2 snake species. Rimba only keeps 2 larger reptiles and the Bush holds the crocodilian for the zoo and the chelonians and several free-roaming lizards and frogs.
    Burgers' seems to take a single species to represent their entire family, take for example the caiman. Those represent the crocodilia group all together. Don't double up too much on species, don't take 3 or 4 wallabies when 1 or 2 will do fine in a large exhibit. Make sure that species have the space and don't mix too many species in a smaller exhibit, like the macaw aviary you added to the restaurant.

    A big thing I noticed that I think sounds a bit unrealistic is a second large aquarium complex given the Ocean already is purposed to house the majority aquatic species they seem to want. And as second the double large nocturnalbuildings. I would narrow it down to 1 building and make it more of a logical size and preferably not put in large ungulates like sitatunga and tapirs, they likely would never do this as they have high animal welfare standards and a sitatunga or tapir that never sees daylight sounds not like it would suit that.

    Now you also have placed a couple exhibits on top of where currently there are buildings.
    For example your entire ''Woods'' section is build on top of large storage buildings, the lion and cheetah backstage complex. The Arctic is also taking away quite a bit of space from the Playground near the Park Restaurant as well as the drive way for trucks to get there to supply the restaurant.

    Another thing is that you added quite a few large new (tropical) houses. I don't think Burgers' really would add many more considering they have both the Bush, the Mangrove and the Desert. Maybe they'd add a fourth if it really can captivate a special location or be a unique exhibit with a key feature species. However I don't believe they would given the large amounts of costs it has to upkeep these and given that the Mangrove is purely a upgrade from he previous smaller one and to have a area dedicated to Belize which Burgers' is trying to protect actively and work with in-situ with their own large area.
    So I would remove: Madagascar, Islands, Outback, Congo and 1 of the Night houses.
    - Congo could probably function just as well as a outdoor area given toprical Africa is already represented within the Bush.

    All of these areas can be well represented with primarily outdoor exhibits featuring species such as;
    - Madagascar: lemurs, fossa, aldabra giant tortoises (during summer, wintertime you can view them indoor through a window much like the current lemur situation.)
    - Islands: personally would just scrap this since it's just a mess geographically and is too open. Several birds can either go into the Mangrove or the Bush, though the Bush is already stocked plenty. As well as that your planned enclosures are honestly quite small.
    - Outback: emus, kangaroos, wallabies, cassowaries, tassie devils, wombats, koalas and tree-kangaroos can all survive outdoors in the Dutch weather (though need good winter indoor exhibits, probably viewable through windows. Though I would like I said again narrow Oceania down to a ecosytem based location, Outback usually is refered to the desert/shrubland so I would go for one of these and design based on that. And personally I would avoid using all of these species since you don't really ever see all of these in 1 zoo. Many enclosures you currently have planned are honestly very small.
    - Congo: the great apes already are outside and have a lot of historical value with their current location and exhibits. Could add a bongo exhibit on the backside where there's the old climbforest playground area, though I would personally scrap this all together since it's too much of a location rather then a biome.
    - Arctic and Wad: just scrap for now, instead focus on a much more tolerable posibility within the Dutch climate and given that Stef himself said that arctic domes are pretty much a no-go within Burgers' their standards. How about, Burgers' Tundra?

    Within Tundras you get pretty much everything you had before, just no penguins. But who needs arctic penguins when African penguins are already representative for the penguin family.
    Within this you can house the Finnish reindeer currently present, snowy owls, martens, wisent, bears, wolves and wolverines. Don't go for musk ox given that Gaia Zoo is removing them due to Climate/wellfare reasons, so adding these would be a bit odd. I think you should give this a go, and merge your ''Woods'' with your ''Arctic'' to create the Tundra. A few larger exhibits that utilize the Veluwe their forest and you're set. You can do this pretty much behind the great Apes where the old playground is located. At least to my knowledge there's nothing else there, however I have never been in that part of the zoo.

    Burgers' Safari you quite extensively re-modeled. In my opinion, for the worse.
    First of all, keep the savanna as it was, including the drinking pool with the rhinocerosses.
    Keep the forested feel. Burgers' is one of the, if not the best, when it comes to their savanna. It's large, quite open in feeling, with some shrubbery and trees scattered around, quite like a savanna.
    Put the Beisa back onto the safari, remove somali wild asses and dromedary from the planboard. The Safari is meant to represent the East-African savanna, not the more barren regions from Africa. Most of the current species can be found back to Kenya, so taking Kenya and neighbouring countries close by as a point to work from can be quite handy.
    Remove the nile building, that's kinda already done in Blijdorp and Beeksebergen, wouldn't really add any value to Burgers'.
    Now for your aviaries, I would only do 1 inbetween the current lion exhibit and the rhino pool. No clue if a walkthrough aviary would be really Burgers' their style, but regardless I would not put a shoebill in there. Personally would scrap this species all together.
    The current stocklist kind of feels a bit too much for what space the aviary would really be. There's a few large species you currently have in your lists, would remove a few and only go for a select few. I also fail to see why you'd relocate the pelicans to a aviary like this since pelicans are known to be able to attack ducks and other waterfowl. You can find videos on YouTube of them swallowing ducks and pigeons if you want to see for yourself. I'd also opt to put the crowned cranes back in with the current old location for them underneath the Skopje terrace at the Safari Restaurant.
    You can pick quite a nice stocking list from the selection you seem to want. Incl. from the bird of prey, considering vultures are scavengers they won't really be harmful to the ducks and other birds. If I recall correctly Zoo Antwerpen has vultures in with plenty of others birds inside their cape buffalo aviary. Perhaps take some inspiration from there.
    Remove the primate islands and move the Patas monkeys possibly in with the savanna. Perhaps, however I don't think it's entirely possible, monkey-proof the fencing around the savanna and they should be able to roam fairly on the savanna. (if you really are keen on the primates however there's already plenty within the zoo.)
    tldr: keep the safari as currently is with a new large aviary and touch up the carnivore enclosures to look more appealing, even though they are actually very good for the species, despite looking a bit dull.

    The new Desert outdoor extension I think looks fair, though I doubt they'd get kit foxes again since they went out of them for a reason. So I'd personally remove those and keep the rest.
    Same for the tortoises, these also didn't work for some reason so I'd be hesitant to add them back.

    I don't know what changes you intend for the Rimba, Bush and Ocean, but I wouldn't do much there since they're pretty much fine as is.

    This is my initial feedback thoughts to give you. Hope it helps.
    Sometimes less species and exhibits is more.
     
  12. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Alright, my laptop broke so I was away for a little while. But I'm back with some updates. I did some visualising and took out some of the animals that (admittedly) were cramping up the space. Here are all the removals / replacements: (I'll try to finally upload woods this afternoon)

    Islands - Cuviers Madagascar swift moved into the Giant chameleon and Spider tortoise enclosure to make room for some more foliage

    Arctic - Took out the Giant pacific octopus, as it didn't really fit too well with the rest

    Islands - Took out the Eastern brown Pelican and the American Flamingo as the aviary was undersized for them, as well as removing the Cuban ground boa

    Outback - Took the wallaroo out of the macropod walkthrough, as well as removing the Eastern Quolls and dingoes from the hall to make space for flora and the birds. The rakali (Australian water rat) moved to the top walk.

    The bush thick-knee (Formerly one of the free-roamers) was moved into the nocturnal walkthrough, and the King quail was added to the free-roamers. Spotted cuscus was taken out of the New Guinea hall

    Desert expansion - kit fox moved out and replaced by a bald eagle aviary

    Night - I decided to keep the tamanduas in their own (now fully walkthrough) enclosure, the Central American Agouti has also moved in here, as well as three-banded armadillos

    Congo - moved the monkeys out of the Okapi and Pygmy hippo enclosures to prevent escapes and be able to increase foliage inside the enclosures

    Woods - removed the European freshwater aquarium (though you wouldn't know it as you haven't seen it)

    Safari - Removed the Bat-eared foxes and some of the wader birds (Yellow-billed stork, Abdim's stork, African openbill)


    Also: As a quick note I forgot to mention before, the Wreathed hornbills in the aviaries in Park 2 will move into a (relatively) small aviary in Rimba, ocean will remain unchanged
     
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  13. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Another little update: I added bare-eyed pigeon to the Netherlands Antilles aviary. I'm also looking for a replacement for the Siberian weasel in Arctic. Because they're, well, not exactly arctic, as it turns out

    Large chance that it's gonna be a stoat
     
  14. PossumRoach

    PossumRoach Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Kakarikis are pretty common in Europe.
     
  15. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    I decided on red-fronted parakeet, actually
     
  16. WalkingAgnatha

    WalkingAgnatha Well-Known Member

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    Kakariki is the Maori name for it.
     
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  17. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Should've known that

    Also forgot to mention that I added some viewing houses to the Congo dome

    Burgers Congo.png

    This'll allow to put netting over the enclosures and add some extra foliage without disrupting the view of the apes too much
     
  18. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Alright, it's finally time for woods!
    Burgers Woods.png

    That's the official unofficial version, though not all animals are listed. So I've devided it into four regions. I'll do my best to get the first two out tonight
     
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  19. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Burger's woods (1)

    Burgers Woods (1).png

    You enter between two enclosures based after the veluwe dune plains
    Afbeelding1.png

    You walk over a small, covered bridge inside a mesh-surrounded enclosure for the badgers and foxes before getting to a small reptile house (only the top part is used for reptiles, larger bottom part is indoor housing for moose and bison). From here you can take the top part with viewing to the boars (styled after the typical forest viewing huts in the forest region of the veluwe) as well as an insect garden with lots of native flowers and insect hotels as well as European pond turtles (that will move into the reptile house during winter).
    veluwe-wildkijkscherm-1.jpg
    (Veluwe viewing hut)

    The moose enclosure is forested in the back, grassy in the middle and swampy in the front region. You get a good viewing from a boardwalk over the water, styled after beekbergerwoud, as well as other marsh regions in the Netherlands
    veluwe-wildkijkscherm-1.jpg
    (Though with wider pathways and railing, as well as being higher and one side being a wall / hill)

    The reptile collection is mainly Dutch species, Common viper and European grass snake are the only snakes in the Netherlands, the Sand lizard and natterjack toad are endangered in the Netherlands, and most others are just some recognizable Dutch species, as well as some non-Dutch thrown in to make it a tiny bit more "Exotic"

    Burgers Woods (1) (Commersial version).png
     
    Last edited: 9 Mar 2021
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  20. Mr Gharial

    Mr Gharial Well-Known Member

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    Little later than expected, but oh well. Woods pt 2!
    Burgers Woods (2).png

    The wolves actually aren't visible from the moose bridge, as the moose enclosure and bridge are in a lower area
    Moose bridge guide.png
    The entire woods area is designed to be lower in the front and higher in the back, with creeks with small waterfalls running all the way from the Alpine region to the lower enclosures. Along with some information boards about most rivers in the Netherlands originating from mountains outside the country

    Speaking of, Burgers Alpine is a sub-region accessible by a cave on ground level (Seen in Burgers Woods 3, which I'll hopefully upload today). With three enclosures, including a walkthrough marmot enclosure. It's completely netted over and holds free-roaming Monk vultures and Alpine choughs

    Burgers Woods (2) (Commersial version).png
     
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