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Thylacine living in zoo ?

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Yoman35, 1 Sep 2007.

  1. Yoman35

    Yoman35 Well-Known Member

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    Which are the zoos which have to present the thylacine ?

    There is Hobart Zoo, New York and London zoo.
     
  2. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    Adelaide. 1880's -1890's
    Antwerp Belgium. Unknown date
    Berlin. 1902- 1908
    Cologne. date unknown
    Melbourne. several.
    Washington (4) early 1900's
     
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  3. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    There are a few pics taken of the ones they had kept at the Washington zoo
     
  4. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    The last surviving thylacine died at Hobart Zoo in 1936.

    Look at this link: Natural History Collections: Thylacine

    However, anecdotal evidence suggests thylacine might have survived in Tasmania for a lot longer. In Tasmania you can find people have relate of even more recent sightings (late 1980's-1990's).

    Then on the Australian mainland reports by quite a few people of a thylacine like animal roaming the SE bush interior. Not to mention the Papuans describing to scientists a creature also quite thylacine like from the mountain interior.

    It is a very interesting animal and the crypto-zoology is quite worthwhile to follow up. We should get into this ....!
     
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  5. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    There is a very short piece of film of one at (I think) either London or Bronx Zoo- it is the clip with the animal tearing at a piece of meat and a brickwall background.

    The other existing film clips are from the Hobart Zoo.
     
  6. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    I already did... I did a lot of research on it some years ago, read the books, visited the museums etc. I've also been to Tasmania three times in all but no, I can't claim a 'tiger' sighting, and the outcome of all of this is that I'm really confused now about whether I think it still exists or not.....:confused:

    There was another thread on this forum recently which indicated scats collected in the 1960's in Tasmania have been proven by DNA to be from the Thylacine. certainly I'm quite sure it was still around in the wild for at least a few years after the last captive died in 1936 in the zoo, but for how long, I have no real idea.
     
  7. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    note that the zoo in Hobart that had thylacine was not today's Hobart Zoo, but rather the Beaumaris Zoo (the site of which is apparently a car park today.
     
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  8. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    grantsmb,

    I still like to get into it more. At least the reports from Australia, PNG and Tasmania are interesting to say the least. I am not saying we will solve the thylacine mystery, but these persistent observations - sometimes far from being corroborated by resident scientists - seem at least sometimes quite genuine. People that have never ever seen one (not in pictures or books) and while describing the animal to those in the know are painting a picture of a thylacine.

    On You tube you can find some interesting video footage:
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwOMoC40q6k]YouTube - possible tasmanian tiger filmed in Australia[/ame]

    It is in Spanish with commentary by a Spanish zoologist Dr. Sitges.

    It is not the only footage on ... You tube!

    When there is such persistent rumour and anecdotal evidence that it might still exist (and even have mainland and PNG distribution) that the serious zoology profession does not put more resources into verifying these claims. DNA scat analysis, vid camera traps, surveys ......
     
  9. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    The other existing film clips are from the Hobart Zoo.[/QUOTE]

    The other film was taken by David Fleay, I spoke with him in 1973 when he told me that animal had bit him on the ass while he was filming it, He said with some pride that he was the only man alive today (1973) that had been bitten by a Thylacine, he was an interesting man to talk to and bred a number of "firsts" in breeding Aussie animals including the Platypus, David died a few years ago I think he was in his mid 80s.
     
    Last edited: 2 Sep 2007
  10. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    When there is such persistent rumour and anecdotal evidence that it might still exist (and even have mainland and PNG distribution) that the serious zoology profession does not put more resources into verifying these claims. DNA scat analysis, vid camera traps, surveys ......[/QUOTE]

    There is a man in Tassie today who claims to have seen two of them in resent times, he has written a book which you can read on the net, he gos by the name "Tigerman" , if you google the name Tigerman you should find it.

    I have read the book and its quite interesting
     
  11. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Well thnx Mark!

    I have just read an article about very recent records (1998-2001) from the Parks and Wildlife Service released under the Freedom of Information Act. The Parks and Wildlife Service does not actively verify claims, just puts them on the record.

    They claim that if they would investigate all claims the office would be inundated with reports. However, their behavior is putting a wall for people to climb to even register a report. Their reluctance is all the more surprising as independent verification of these claims is the only recognized method of scientific research.

    If so many people inter-dependently claim to have seen what they claim to have seen, is it not time to at least to establish a research group within the Parks and Wildlife Service to investigate on a longterm basis the possibility that the thylacine continues to survive in low numbers in parts of Tasmania?

    Somehow, I can't get my head around the apparent lacklustre treatment of the subject by wildlife authorities!!?

    Most records seem to come from the NW part of Tasmania.

    Here is the link: UNDER DOWN UNDER Tasmanian Adventure Tours
     
  12. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    Somehow, I can't get my head around the apparent lacklustre treatment of the subject by wildlife authorities!!?


    What "some" people claim here in Oz is that The Goverment is only interested in the BIG MONEY from the export of "wood chip" from Tassie old growth forests and any remaining Tigers are living in these old growth areas, Some are saying that the Goverment has put pressure on other Goverment departments like the National parks to "play down" any sightings, Now there are plans for another huge pulp mill in Tassie costing $Billons
     
    Last edited: 2 Sep 2007
  13. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Mark,

    With a record number of mammalian extinctions in mainland Australia and these persistent rumours about an unusual and highly rated mammal like the thylacine, you would think it would have quick started the federal government into some real action. Maybe us individuals and those that have claimed to have seen them lately should be petitioning the government into a credible conservation research programme for the thylacine in Tassie and mainland Oz and stop the old growth forests from NW-Tassie be chipped into paper pulp!

    Here is the nearest to an individual catching a thylacine. It is dated 1991.

    Quote: "Back in 1991 I was living on the NE of Tasmania in a small rural village. 1 was 16 then and like any other teenager I got bored and was always looking for things to do. I found some old style rabbit traps in a shed at the back of our house and proceeded to set them in dense bushland near our house which as a teenager I did not realise was illegal. It was a sunny but cold frosty morning when I went to check the traps.. the first trap I checked had caught a strange creature which was about 1.5 ft tall and fairly long.. approximately the size of a jack russel terrier but longer in the body. It had stripes from mid back down to the tail and cowered down while pulling on the chain that held the trap where it's foot was caught.. I immediently realised how cruel these traps where (was a bit of joke when I initially set them) did'nt think I would catch anything! anyway, In my teenage mind I had a picture of as much larger animal as the Tasmanian Tiger.. not a smallish long creature that looked like a dog.. I stood and looked at it from about 2 metres away in full morning sun for about 2-3 minutes while contemplating how i was going to release this poor creature.. It was pulling back very hard on the trap trying to get away.. I ran back home to get my dad to help me.. by the time we got back it had struggled free and was nowhere to be seen.. My dad said it could have been a a quall as he said they had stripes on them.. I have just realised when looking at native animals in Tasmania on the internet that it could not have been anything but a Tiger as there are no other native animals that have stripes on them in tasmania.. Please tell me if I am wrong? I am now 95% certain that this was a thylacine and I could be the only person that has actually had one captured live in the past 50 yrs or more.. It only dawned on me the past week as I happened to be looking at native animals in tasmania on the internet.. I know exactly where I caught it and am certain it got away ok.. just minor scratches on it's leg.. Should I be telling any authorities??" unquote

    If it is not possible to reports these records to the relevant conservation authorities how on earth are we going to protect them. Think of the bilby and such indifference and it would also go extinct, even now.
     
  14. MARK

    MARK Well-Known Member

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    Jelle, I have heard that we in Oz have LOST around 200 native species of animals in the last 200 years, the record is not very good, It "maybe" the case "IF" the Goverment do know of any Living Tigers they "may" want to look the other way, while there is BIG money involed in chipping these big areas of old Growth forest, I wish I knew what the real story was, I guess some do?
     
  15. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    uh..that Youtube video is of a starving dog with mange. You can see the backbone showing, and can quite clearly see that the skin is hairless. This is not evidence of thylacine survival. Almost all the video and photographic "proof" that has been presented over the years can be conclusively shown to be of dogs or other animals, or to be outright fakes (like the infamous series of still shots of an immobile "thylacine" taken from several angles over several hours). I personally believe there MAY be thylacines hanging on in Tasmania, but it is unlikely to the point of impossibility that there are any on mainland Australia. I am open to New Guinea, simply because it is still so unexplored in many areas. However there are no convincing proofs in film or photo; all there really is are reported sightings which can be taken one way or the other.
     
  16. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    absolutely the animal is a starving dog. the ears are the wrong shape and you can even see for brief glimpse that the animal has a dark bushy tail. the fur was short on thylacine tails....not to mention the lack of stripes. unfortnately i am not much of a thylacine believer. which is a terrible shame.
     
  17. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    I quite liked the comments left on that Youtube video by people who wouldn't know a thylacine from a rabbit. Especially the one that went something like "its a mountain lion you idiots". Lol
     
  18. jwer

    jwer Well-Known Member

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    I agree with both accounts in 1 post from Patrick...

    feels weird :eek:
     
  19. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Guys,

    What I am basically saying is this ..! You may be sceptical on this footage, which I indeed myself find unclear, unsteady and quite possibly not a wild animal at all. However, Too many reports of purported thylacine sightings, both in Tassie and mainland Australia. I am not advocating for unprofessional people to investigate these claims more seriously, I am suggesting the Parks and Wildlife Service do this properly and consistently.

    Previous research work has tended to analyse the sits when already long gone and the only technical props used were cameras. These days animal trapping, radio-collaring, infra-red trap cameras are commonly used. That is the sort of research we are looking at. Because of a reluctance by authorities to investigate - which in the case of Tassie is also brought on by an politically aggressive timber production lobby - the turf is taken over by wildlife enthusiasts. Only if the continued reported sightings are properly followed up and a comprehensive thylacine research programme is initiated can we get to the bottom of this. In Tassie there is simply too much old growth forest left, impenetrable and least populated too not to put in a real effort. The skepticism in the department has persisted ever since 1936, even when concrete evidence of thylacine shootings have been produced long since.

    Another link you may want to look at is this:
    The Thylacine Museum - The Natural History of Thylacinus cynocephalus: Alleged Mainland Thylacine Sightings (page 1)
     
  20. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    As several people have already commented- the YouTube footage is 100% NOT a Thylacine. Its is either a starving hairless dog or possibly a Fox (was it filmed in Tasmania or elsewhere?). These people are daft to be wasting their time discussing it at all...:)

    Yet there are many interesting reports, even nowadays. One of the most believable sightings I've come across was from a Wildlife Officer in the 1980's called Hans Narding. He was camped out(sleeping in his vehicle) in the bush in the NW. while on a bird survey and (reputedly) saw a Tiger at night in pouring rain. His description is extremely plausible and I doubt a man in his position would want to make a fool of himself with adverse publicity. During his interview he says, (with a heavy German accent) that he could 'smell it' which seems an authentic observation to me and not easy to dream up. He ends by saying vehemently "I know what I see... "