Still, would we consider skinning and beheading someone before they are buried/cremated respectful? I agree CAPS wouldn't be able to close them; they sit and complain and not much else. I do agree that Noah's Ark should close either way though.
It's easier then trying it AFTER they're buried/cremated Sorry, couldn't resist -been a long, hard week. Slightly more seriously, do you wear leather shoes -that's skinning something after death (arguably bred for purpose, but similar principle). If you don't, I'll give you the win (through consistency of argument) on this point
Come on guys a dead animal can be skinned and dissected, almost evrything we know scientifically about aniamls has been learned this way. We are not talking about people here and anthropomorphism has no place in a serious discussion about animals. I very much believe animals are animals and should be treated as such! CAPS are a complete waste of space they are anti everything zoo related and if we start offering our support to them, no matter what the case, it will start to undermine the integrity of this forum. I have to state here that the tigers were not deliberately mistreated. This is a moral issue not animal abuse or mistreatment issue. Had the tigers been mistreated or died from mis management I am bloody sure that we would have read about it! NAZF would be in a whole lot more trouble too.
I didn’t realize Martin Lacey owned the camels, but this still leaves the question of why the tigers have gone back? If, as some have said, it is the Great British Circus distancing it’s self from NAZF, your comments about the camels still apply, why didn’t GBC take the camels back as well?
I agree entirely with Vulpes. animals can (and in some cases should) be utilised in death as educational tools to fruther promote the conservation of a species. I dare say many people have been to a natural history museum and looked in awe of the dinosaurs and stuffed animals (amongst other things of course). Why shouldn't the same apply in zoos? In west Midlands safari park there is a warthog skull int the african hut. At London zoo there are various preserved reptiles at the reptile house (I think). In chester there is a viper skeleton/skull (Unless this was a model). My point is the use of the dead can give another view into the world of the animals.
Personally I would rather see the visitors to this place distance themselves from the place by not visiting,so that the animals can be moved to collections that will not apply farming practices to keeping a species like Giraffes.
Linctrek Ltd is one of several companies owned by Martin Lacey who also owns the Great British Circus, the only UK circus to use performing tigers. Linctrek has two directors, both of whom also run the circus. If you may like to know more about Martin Lacey, log on [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Lacey]Martin Lacey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Tira and Tumkur's deaths I followed the story of Tira ( the mother tiger ) on the web cam and on news articles on the internet since she got to Noah’s Arc Zoo and it seems to be the general opinion that she died of an incurable disease that she had had from birth which is what the cub ( Tumkur ) died of as well ( maybe it was some sort of genetic condition they had ) so the zoo can not be blamed for this but they were very neglectful or ignorant to have a pregnant tiger ( Tira was already more than half way through her pregnancy when she travelled there ) transported to their zoo and when they got her there to have her in a den that had people constantly passing it with only a window to separate them and people banging on the window, I assume to see if they could make the tiger move. Also the cub was transported home each night to a keepers house so it could have it s nightly feeds and have someone on attendance at all times, this seemed a bit strange would it not be better to keep the cub in the zoo and have someone stay over with it, they knew the cub was week and surely it would be better to keep it in one place and not expose it to a different environment each night?
Thanks for the info Gentle Giant. Interesting to see Lacey was involved in the ESSO ads. I remember back in the 80’s Dartmoor Wildlife Park had an ESSO tiger; do you know if Lacy involved with Dartmoor? Zoogiraffe –I’d also be interested in your opinion as to why the tigers have been sent back.
Actually everyone and his dog claims association in training the tigers of the Esso tiger campaign. It was long running campaign so I suspect they used many tigers and many trainers. If you go on You Tube there quite a few of the adverts posted on there. The biography of Martin Lacey isn’t very detailed. I met him on a couple of occasions professionally but can’t say I know him well. A friend that worked with him in zoos years ago said he was a good animal keeper. His background is zoos not the circus which he got involved with later in his career. He ran Sherwood Park Zoo in Hucknall near Nottingham for a number of years in conjunction with Associated Pleasure Parks (Flamingo Park Zoo etal). He also was often on television in the same persona as people like Terry Nutkins etc. A bit more information can be found on this thread from Zoo Chat. http://www.zoochat.com/38/sherwood-zoo-70375/
Afraid I don`t think I could realy say on a open forum,as I suspect it could get me into a bit of trouble!
Tira's Cub Hi Vulpes, you could be right, but when I used to watch the cub on the web cam at about 5.00pm they used to put a lid on the box the cub was in and take it somewhere and the posts from a member of the staff said that it was taken home each night because it needed to be fed in the night. Where did you get your info?
This is a fairly normal practice to take young animals home to keepers homes each night. It would be impractical for a keeper to stay in animal accommodation. Many great apes and big cats are raised in their keepers houses. Most zoo programs will have stories about these situations.
Im sorry about the comments I have put Shorts but I find what Noahs Ark have done just terrible. I really do hate what CAPS do but I really do think they actually have a point with this issue - With very little experience how long will it be until animals die of other things and hand reared offspring dieing too. With all of the more exotic animals they are getting they are putting themselves and the animals in danger as they really do not know what they are doing. Noahs should keep to what they are best at - Farming. Please hope I havent offended any Noah Fans
I think it could be argued that although the staffs intentions were not to deliberately mistreat the animals, taking on a species and not following the tried and tested methods of keeping that species - which have been learned over many years - means they have not done that species justice. Moving any animal in a fairly late stage of pregnancy is usually not a good idea and most cat keepers would recommend a private "cubbing" den or area for the female to feel safe and secure in to give birth. If the staff are inexperienced in keeping large cats then they should seek advice from the people that have experience and though I do not know for sure that Noah's Ark didn't do this I can only assume they didn't as I cannot imagine many cat experts recommending placing a den area directly in front of a viewing window which has not been closed off to visitors. Whatever experience any keeper has it is only good practice to seek and follow advice of others with more experience and do the best by their animals in doing so. They should have made more use of the resources available to them while they were BIAZA members and it may be there "go it alone" attitude that needs to change.
I was quite tempted to put that Pertinax Im well aware it happens but I just dont think skinning and decapitating a Tiger is either right or respectful.
That would have near enough happened if she'd been sent for a PM though, I don't really see the difference myself.
