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Tiguar Mystery

Discussion in 'Mexico' started by infometric21, 11 Apr 2014.

?

Do

  1. Yes

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  2. No

    1 vote(s)
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  1. infometric21

    infometric21 Member

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    Here are some of my new discoveries about tiguars that I have found from the Internet and Wikipedia. This may help with uncovering the mystery of the tiguar.

    According to this link, there are claims about tiguars in the wild: HYBRIDS BETWEEN JAGUARS AND TIGERS

    Also, I have done a search on when tiguars were first mentioned on Wikipedia.

    Tiguars were first mentioned when the page "Panthera hybrid" on 1 September 2005. No information on the tiguar except for its name (tiguar or jagger) was given. This edit was by JYolkowski.

    Further information about possible resemblence to a dogla, but more powerfully built was given on 14 September 2005 by a user with the IP address 20.133.0.14. According to IP Address: 20.133.0.14 , this user edited from London, UK. The location on Google Earth is Methodist Central Hall Westminster, Westminster, London SW1H 9NH, UK. This user has made several wikipedia edits.

    The information about resemblance to a dogla was later deleted. Until 2008 not much more was added.

    On 28 April 2008 a user called Raikou888ex wrote a long summary about a tiger/jaguar hybrid (tiguar) living in the jungle in the Amazon and gave lots of "facts". He/she was likely unfamiliar with wikipedia because he/she put his/her edit in the wrong place, deleted it, and then put it in the right place. However, the summary by Raikou888ex has no citations and is very likely made-up because he/she writes that tiguars can live for over 50 years. In reality, tigers live for 20-26 years (in captivity so in the wild it's less) and jaguars live for 12-15 years. A hybrid would not live for such a long time. Also, Raikou888ex talks about tiguars having cubs, but most hybrids are infertile.

    Raikou888ex's summary was deleted the same day.

    On 17 June 2009 a user with IP address 201.103.135.91 wrote first wrote about Mickey in the wiki article: "At the Apetatitlan Zoo (Tlaxcala, México) the crossbreeding of male siberian tiger and a female jaguar from the southern Chiapas jungle produced a male Tiguar named Mickey. The specimen is in exhibition at a 400 m2 habitat and as of June 2009, is two years old and weighs 180 kg."

    According to IP Address: 201.103.135.91 the IP address is from Mexico City. The user made no other wikipedia edits.
    Using the latitude/longitude given in the website and google earth, the location where the edit was made is Bolívar 21, Centro, Cuauhtémoc, 06000 Ciudad de México, D.F., Mexico.

    On 3 October 2009 user Seduisant changed the edit with the zoo being Altiplano Zoo in the city of Apetatitlan (near Tlaxcala, México). The same day he changed the city to San Pablo Apetatlan and converted Mickey's weight to lbs. Seduisant has made several wikipedia edits. However, there was still no citation.

    The section was further edited by subsequent users to become the version seen today. There was some vandalism (not about tiguars) on the section though.

    On 11 April 2014 I (infometric21) added the Hawaiin tiguar claim and its link to the wikipedia page.

    The tiguar section on wikipedia is on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera_hybrid#Jaguar_and_tiger_hybrids

    The revision history for the entire article is on:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Panthera_hybrid&dir=prev&limit=500&action=history

    I will continue doing more research on the tiguar mystery and will keep you all updated.

    Please reply if you have any additional information.

    Thank you.
     
  2. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member

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    There is no mystery. Tigers and Jaguars cannot hybridise in the wild, as they live on different continents.
    It might be theoretically possible to cross the two species in captivity, but there is no evidence that this has ever happened.
     
  3. infometric21

    infometric21 Member

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  4. wally war eagle

    wally war eagle Well-Known Member

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    show me a realistic photo and authentic written document of DNA blood analysis. I do not believe in critters of fantacy unicorns or figments of halucinating imagination.
     
  5. carlos55

    carlos55 Well-Known Member

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    mexico,d.f.
    It is astonishing how these things come back. About 3 years ago i went to the zoologico del altiplano, and no mickey the tiguar. Actually i think here on zoochat was where the tiguar fallacy was finally exposed. I noticed that some of the later posts that infometric posted mentioned that there was some evidence that mickey did not exist. Well that evidence appeared here first on zoochat. I posted the real information that there was no tiguar at Tlaxcala, and posted real photos of the felines and their exhibits there. Also Chilidonias made a nice research on how the whole fallacy snowballed into an internet myth. I repeat it is amazing how these things just keep coming back.
    P.S.
    Wally could you look at my zoomat pictures and identify the turtles from chiapas please ?
     
  6. infometric21

    infometric21 Member

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    Do you think that the tiguar may have been at the zoo at some point, but was sold to a private collector? This happens a lot in small zoos in Mexico. Also, small poor zoos may make attempts at hybridization in order to gain fame.
     
  7. carlos55

    carlos55 Well-Known Member

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    Profepa (Procudaria Federal de protección al medio ambiente) did find that Tlaxcala zoo did have animals sold illegaly. It is not that common and federal authorities do control the movement of zoo animals in Mexico. There was an investigation and movement of personal and changes were made. But when i went to the zoologico del altiplano i asked different members of the staff about the tiguar Mickey and everyone told me that such an animal did not exist. "Why we would carry out such a difficult pairing ? The tiger would kill the jaguar". I was told. Since no reliable pictures of the animal have ever appeared, i believe the zoo staff completely.
     
  8. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    the earliest reference I could find to the Mexican zoo tiguar was 2008: to quote myself from the other thread:
    Interesting to know someone was making up additional tiguar stuff earlier that same year:
    Sounds to me like someone (perhaps the same person!) remembered the earlier nonsense and came up with a new more-believable story a few months later, except the new story stuck and is now all over the internet as being "true".


    Here's what you should be asking: which is the more likely option?

    Option one: the Mexican tiguar is real but this extraordinary and noteworthy birth at the zoo was not publicised in any way, no photos have ever been taken of the animal, and the zoo disavows all knowledge of its existence.

    Or option two: it is a made-up story off the internet.

    I know which one I believe!


    As for a melanistic tiger x jaguar hybrid roaming loose in Hawaii ... seriously?! I mean, come on, do you also believe in Bigfoot?
     
  9. zoogiraffe

    zoogiraffe Well-Known Member

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    Next Chlidonias you will be telling us that Lesser Fijian Trolls are not real either!!:D:p
     
  10. infometric21

    infometric21 Member

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    @Chlidonias:

    I searched up the person you mentioned who first wrote about the Altiplano zoo on the Spanish wikipedia on 23 December 2008 and he/she had the IP Address 189.243.51.52. Using IP Address: 189.243.51.52 and Google Earth, the edit was made from Calle Manzanares 131, Centro, Cuauhtémoc, 06000 Ciudad de México, D.F., Mexico (in Mexico City).

    The person who wrote the English version on wikipedia was also from Mexico City, however the IP address was different.

    The only information about raikou888ex I could find was a German gaming website profile. His/her country is listed as the United States. Here's the link:
    raikou888ex.

    Also the claim about tiguars in Maui, Hawaii is very likely just a hoax. There are claims of "phantom cats" on the island however: but that's the cryptozoologists' business!
     
  11. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member

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    I see one person has voted in the poll. My question is, what do they think they are voting for when the only word in the poll is "Do"? :D
     
  12. infometric21

    infometric21 Member

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    Sorry about that. The poll isn't working properly.
     
  13. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member

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    As the poll is of no relevance to the thread at the present time, I have closed it - if the original poster wants to send me a message saying what it was intended to ask, I will edit the poll to reflect this and re-open it.