Top 5 Zoos in the USA

{Note - thread split from here: San Diego Zoo - San Diego: The Perfect Zoo?}

Here is something that I've never put on ZooChat but now seems to be an appropriate occasion:

I've read about the Bronx Zoo many times on this thread and @ThylacineAlive has stated that the Bronx is "by far my favourite zoo" but he needs to understand the enormous level of subjectivity that takes place when comparing zoos. My excellent friend @ANyhuis and I have sent each other 400-500 emails over the past decade, with many of the messages featuring discussions about zoos. We've got lots in common as we both have earned Master's Degrees, we've both got 4 kids, we've both visited 350-400 zoos and Allen has even written two books about zoos while I've got a zoo book being published next year. Neither of us think that the Bronx Zoo is the best zoo in America, or even the 2nd best (Omaha), or even the 3rd best (Saint Louis), or even the 4th best (Columbus) and we both have Bronx in the #5 slot. The Bronx Zoo is an amazing, world-class institution that is head and shoulders above thousands of other zoological parks around the world, but the USA is stacked with tons of great zoos. If @ThylacineAlive believes that Bronx is the best then that is wonderful and I support his decision but I don't necessarily have to agree with it.

It is ALL subjective but Allen and I did team up with Jon Wassner, who co-wrote America's Best Zoos (2008) and about a year ago the three of us traded what seemed like a hundred emails back-and-forth. We realized that the three of us all agreed on the 5 best zoos in the USA but we each had a slightly different order of ranking them. So Allen, who is a qualified statistician, came up with a 'statistically objective analysis' and a complicated spreadsheet with at least 15-20 categories. Allen, Jon and myself, all well-informed zoo nerds, ranked our 5 zoos in all of those categories. Off the top of my head, some of the categories were: North American animals, South American animals, Australian animals, Asian animals, African animals, primates, hoofstock, big cats, bears, birds, reptiles/amphibians, fish, invertebrates, weather, history, conservation programs, restaurants, visitor amenities, rides, etc, etc, etc. I can't remember all of the various headings and I'm guessing on a few of those that I listed but obviously someone could be pedantic and even debate the use of certain categories. We would then each rank the zoos in each category and for example with reptiles/amphibians I'd go in this order: 1- San Diego, 2- Saint Louis, 3- Omaha, 4- Bronx, 5- Columbus. Many would agree with my rankings but others might have a different order. Allen, Jon and I would compile all of our rankings of the 5 zoos in each category and the spreadsheet was then filled in with our data.

There are individuals that will certainly dismiss the whole thing as goobledygook and I can accept that. Vive la difference! We had great fun! However, at the end of the day San Diego won handily and the 3 of us were genuinely surprised at the ease of victory as the zoo ended up with many more points than its nearest competitors. Perhaps too many categories were a reflection of a zoo's animal collection? Perhaps San Diego really is one of the best zoos in the nation, as it has been since its earliest days? Omaha and Saint Louis were practically a dead heat for 2nd place although in the end Omaha just shaded it and Saint Louis was third. Columbus, even with its piped-in music that @sooty mangabey adores, finished 4th and Bronx was in 5th place.

 

Really? I’m honestly not sure that I would rank Columbus any higher than being the fourth best zoo in Ohio! Certainly, I preferred Cincinnati and Toledo* – and, at its best, Cleveland out ranks it too ( although, at its worst, Cleveland is outranked by pretty much every zoo I’ve ever been to). It would be ridiculous to put Akron ahead of Columbus – but, for what it is...

* in the interest of fairness, I must admit that, the more I have reflected on it, the more I have been annoyed by the failings of Toledo – so possibly Columbus might nudge ahead of it, on a good day (maybe a day when the piped music system has broken down, and therefore one is not forced to listen to a Muzak version of “everybody loves to cha-cha-cha“ while trying to reflect on the beauty and wonder of a polar bear.).

 

@snowleopard first and foremost I look forward to reading your book.
Your post touches on an important distinction that has been touched on earlier in this thread but never fully discussed; the difference between favourite and best. As you say, everyone can have their own favourite zoo but that in itself is a subjective choice. That is a sharp contrast from classifying a zoo as "the best." Debating favourites makes for a very entertaining discussion, but at the end of the day only reflects personal choices (there is no wrong choice for personal favourite).
I love the approach the three of you utilized in comparing the five zoos! Intriguingly it produced findings that are comparable to my own preferences (I only differ by placing Columbus ahead of Saint Louis, and having not yet visited San Diego so I can't comment on it). I'm hoping this table is included in your upcoming book as I'd love to view the full breakdown and with a slight background in stats during my Masters and PhD studies, I'd love to discuss/debate the categories used.

 

I understand the enormous subjectivity that comes along with picking a favorite zoo... Bronx is my favorite zoo and imo the best I've ever been to. I can also write paragraphs upon paragraphs about why that is and why I think it beats San Diego, and while I understand others do not have the time or feel the need to do so when threads like this are created, I think that everyone should be able to give at least a semi-detailed explanation about why they have their beyond "great collection, great enclosures, great weather" if they're going to present said opinion to others. As @m30t has said, there is a difference between favorite and best. You and others have repeatedly claimed that the zoo is the best in the country and possibly the world, but many seem reluctant to actually explain why aside from the vague general description I mentioned above. I understand you wrote a well thought-out review back in 2011, but the zoo is very different from the way it was in 2011 and if you're going to tell us that this zoo is the best*, you should also be prepared to back that statement when we ask why you feel this way and I do not think that is too much to ask. It's not fair to make an extremely bold claim, tell me I have to accept it, but then not explain why when I wish to know. When the odd member appears on here and tells us they think concrete bear grottos and tiny parrot cages are perfectly acceptable, we question them and expect them to be able to defend/explain their opinion, why should we not expect the same just because it's towards an opinion most people share? I remember years back when I first visited Cincinnati and said I thought their nocturnal house was fine, I was hit with a great deal of push-back by many members who found it to be very poor and I was expected to explain my opinion.I have not seen a great deal of explanation when it comes to SDZ so I felt the need to push that question of "why?". As I stated earlier, the purpose of this thread is for me and others (and I know there are a good deal of other people who feel the same way I do) to better understand the opinions of the hardcore San Diego Zoo fans such as yourself, not to attempt to change your minds. The criticisms and reviews I am giving on this thread are my opinions on the zoo, I just formatted the thread differently because I wanted to provoke more of a conversation/debate and see other people's takes on the flaws I'm pointing out.

I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I feel as though @sooty mangabey and yourself are the ones not being very cooperative here. I respect you both greatly and understand you both will have certain knowledge and experience I don't, but I don't really appreciate the attitude you've both taken to this topic (and again, I know others don't either and I really wish they'd speak up about it). Sooty has made multiple posts claiming he feels similarly towards they way I and some others here have conducted ourselves, but at the same time he's the only one making very rude comments about others being unwise for things they clearly never actually said (and maybe he responded to my comment about this earlier? He quoted my post but never actually typed anything) and getting grumpy when asked for clarification on posts that read off very confusingly and even sound incriminating. As for yourself, it took you SEVEN pages of this thread to actually respond to the repeated requests by multiple members to give any kind of actual explanation for your "best zoo" claim, instead opting to make several posts that can summed up as "San Diego is the best because it is great, and it is great because it is the best" as @TeaLovingDave has pointed out is often the norm on this forum. You did the same thing on the Atlanta v San Diego thread. @Arizona Docent boldly claimed that the zoo's collection is amazing in every category I mentioned. Personally I don't see how when you get to categories like fishes where the zoo only has three tanks and would love to see an explanation on this. When further explanation was requested, however, he said he did not have the time nor energy to do so. I understand we all have lives, I'm extremely busy myself, but of course people are going to be frustrated and exasperated when things like this keep happening. Yes tempers have risen a bit from myself and others on both sides of the question here, but is that not what happens during a good heated debate? I have backed up every claim/criticism I've made, historically people have not about this zoo. You both have now done so here, and I appreciate that. That is progress and exactly what I wanted to happen, and I feel I am all the wiser for having a better grip on your opinions. I do not expect you to change your minds about the zoo or even change your minds about Bronx- I am not the one who keeps bringing up Bronx here, I actually wanted to avoid comparing the two but that is how the thread evolved and that's fine- I just would like some actual constructive conversation and we're gotten there now. I have several posts I'm working on that will tackle this whole weather debate, northern v southern climate zoos, and will continue with this threads purpose by reviewing the bird collection (spoiler alert: it's great). I hope more constructive conversation will follow.

*For the record I know that when you said it's the best, you mean it's the best in your opinion, but my point still stands.

~Thylo

 

This is an interesting approach, but would you evaluate other things, for example movies, the same way? A great movie is more than just the sum of great scenes or the sum of scores given to different categories. I do believe that there is great value in breaking things down and analyzing them more carefully, but you shouldn't lose sight of the overall picture.

With respect to zoos, I think a better way of evaluating them is to look at their mission and goals and evaluate how well they meet or exceed them.

 

I think you’re missing two crucial points here:
1) giraffes are remarkably more cold-hardy than one might think
2) the weather doesn’t always get that bad in New York.
I could fiddle around and find you the actual recommendations by the AZA, but I’ve seen giraffes out in snow before. Sure, they might not get the full length of day that they might in summer, but they’re certainly not locked inside the giraffe building half the year like some members make them out to be. And another thing: the building has more paddocks than what the public can see.

Really? yourself. Columbus is consistently one of the highest quality zoos, exhibit by exhibit, in the US. Sure, it has its shortcomings in terms of species like elephants, but it features far too many fantastic exhibits to deserve to be rated below Cleveland... Certainly it features the country’s second best polar bear exhibit, with a fantastic breeding record right with it, not to mention the African savanna that is larger than quite a few entire zoos. There is a brilliant manatee exhibit, by far the best in the US (where we take our manatees very seriously). Beyond that, other high quality exhibits such as grizzly bear and bonobo, mixed with a very nice all around collection certainly make it deserve its high spot on many people’s lists (I’ve got it at #8 personally). If your only complaint is some music playing, buy a pair of earplugs.

 

Thanks for the very helpful advice.

I just didn’t much care for Columbus. Lots of reasons, discussed elsewhere. The music was indicative of those reasons, rather than fundamental to them.

 

I sort of admire your tenacity, @ThylacineAlive , even though you are totally exasperating at times. In the very first post of mine on this long thread, I provided a link to an almost 4,000-word, 7-page word document that is an extensive review of San Diego Zoo. You seem to consider 4,000 words as a "vague general description" and my overview does date from 2011 and so I suppose that I could update my thoughts. I feel as if throughout my years on ZooChat I've discussed the best and the worst in regards to San Diego Zoo on so many occasions to the point of ad nauseam, and there is zero reluctance from me to talk about one of the world's truly great zoos. I've backed that statement on multiple occasions and you are inspiring me to re-write and update a commentary on the current situation at San Diego Zoo. I'm not promising 4,000 words again, but I'll come up with something. Stay tuned.

 

I'm traveling at the moment so I don't have any time to explain my opinion on this. I actually cover this on my Top 10 Favorite Zoos video (San Diego comes 4th) and for whatever reason, I would still take St. Louis and Columbus over San Diego any day.

 

As far as The Bronx goes, I love the zoo and it does have some tremendous exhibits, but as for it's contention for the best zoo in the country goes, I think that case was much easier to make ten years ago. Since opening up the Madagascar exhibit in 2008, they've been stagnant and actually closed World of Darkness in 2009. Meanwhile the other zoos that are often mentioned as top 5 zoo's have improved a great deal in that time.

 

Now that the NY Aquarium rebuild is for the most part done, with the opening of Ocean Wonders: Sharks we can only hope that the Bronx Zoo receives some major attention. The zoo of today is better than 10 years ago in my opinion, but most of the changes have been small and collection based. The implementation of the new collection plan based more around WCS conservation efforts has brought the zoo many new species: slender-horned gazelle, white rhino, Komodo Dragon, Gharial, Peruvian Pelican, Little Penguin, Aldabra Tortoise, Pure Bison, Hellbender, Grand Cayman Blue Iguana, Giant Anteater and more.

The closing of World of Darkness (which was beloved for its collection, but its exhibits were not great) Monkey house, and the Polar Bear exhibit while unpopular were the right moves from an animal welfare standpoint. The issue is the zoo has not invested in any major exhibits, but the zoo has done some great smaller projects such as the Children's Zoo Renovation, Zoo Center Renovation and improvements to the majority of the reptile houses displays.

Now I hope the zoo can work on their long-term plans which the director laid out in this 2017 interview " The Bronx Zoo has a number of ideas for future exhibits including a resurrected World of Darkness, a Safari Adventure area that will expand on the current African Plains and address how wildlife is displaced by human activity, new exhibits in the old Monkey House including indoor and outdoor habitats for primates and pygmy hippos and a Latin American section." Any of these changes would be welcome and better balance out the collection.

Taking On the Legacy and the Zoo A Conversation with Jim Breheny, Director of the Bronx Zoo, Executive Vice President and General Director, Zoos and Aquarium of the Wildlife Conservation Society | zoophoria

 

Although most of WCS’s development funds were directed to other facilities, Bronx has made several improvements and new exhibits since 2008.

• Monitors, including Komodo dragons, and giant tortoises in 2014: Dragons Return to the Bronx Zoo
• Kiwi exhibit in the Aquatic Bird House in 2014
• Children’s Zoo in 2015
• Renovations and new species in the Mouse House
• Renovations in World of Birds and JungleWorld
• Renovations in World of Reptiles and new hellbender exhibit in 2017

As noted above, there seem to be good plans for the future.

As for the ongoing discussion about popularity: I asked a friend tonight about zoos. She immediately mentioned Bronx, then National, but had no idea that there was a zoo in San Diego at all.

 

The zoo has been making the most of a tight financial situation since 2008. First the recession hit the WCS hard and later on in 2014 as the WCS was recovering Superstorm Sandy destroyed the majority of the NY Aquarium. As I mentioned earlier, the zoo has brought in some amazing species and has really invested in improving its existing exhibits. The WCS seems keen to expand the amount of species on display, especially when it comes to be birds with dozens of new species in World of Birds, the Pheasant Row, Jungleworld (the forgotten 20,000 sq ft walkthrough aviary) and especially the Aquatic Bird House. It'll be interesting to see whats next for the zoo. I imagine the next major complex will focus on mammals, given the attention the reptile & bird collections have received in recent years. My hope is that the zoo moves foward with the restructuring of African Plains, moving the rhinos over their. Then the zoo could renovate half of Zoo Center for pygmy hippo.

 

As a quick aside- where did you find this number? That was my personal estimate, so I’m glad to see I was correct.

 

I use the below software to do a rough measure of the rooms area. So the main room of Jungleworld is 22,500 and the only area of the room off-exhibit to the bird collection is the leopard exhibit. Subtracting what I estimate that at gets you about 20,000 sq ft. Making it larger than the Sea Bird Aviary at the Bronx Zoo & any of the walkthrough aviaries at the San Diego Zoo.

Google Maps Area Calculator Tool

Note: I have heard that the leopards are still not on exhibit. Have they passed or been replaced? Because I visited in early June and they were redoing the entire space.

 

Thanks for the explanation. As an additional question (and one which is actually relevant to this thread), do you know the size of the new walkthrough aviary in Africa Rocks at San Diego?

Nobody’s heard anything as far as I know, but it appears they are gone in any case now as the exhibit has been empty and under renovation for quite some time. Hopefully whatever is next exhibited will be better suited to the space.

 

Google earth does not have any updated imagry of the fully opened complex, but estimating from the construction photos it can't be larger than 12,000 sq ft. So best estimate is 10,500 sq ft.

And I hope the leopards do not return. With the removal of them and the closure of the polar bear exhibit, two of the worst exhibits at the zoo have hopefully been discontinued.

 

That's minor compared to San Diego, Henry Doorly, Saint Louis, and Columbus.

 

Minor, perhaps, but certainly not “stagnant.” The fact they were able to introduce a number of updates while still rebuilding the NY Aquarium is impressive, in particular the $4 million renovation of the children’s zoo with many new species being added. I’d certainly prefer these improvements to a $45 million EO flop.

 

Haha, ok.