I think a big thing everyone is forgetting in the changes made to the plan for the hippos and gorillas and to a lesser extent the educational and breeding centers is that the original plan was overly optimistic. Virtually all big zoos doe 25 year plans. Did anyone really think Toronto was going to build the orang exhibit (now a full year behind schedule already), the Canadian Wilderness, improve Tundra Trek, redo the Americas pavilion, destroy (I mean reinvent) Australiasia, convert indo Malaya, build a hippo exhibit, expand the gorilla outdoor exhibit, build ravens ridge (waste of time), convert the domain, redo the main entrance, do rhino improvements, retool the savanna, create a breeding center and that educational building... all in just 10 years. That's more than one project a year! They can barely handle one small project in two years! I'm looking at you orang exhibit. I don't even think they can handle all that in 25 years to be frank. With the exception of the Wildlife Centre every project they have done takes almost a year or two longer than originally predicted and still opens months later than they announce when construction finally starts. I will not be shocked when the orang exhibit opens in 2020 not 2019 as predicted already a full year behind schedule. They dont even have a flipping plan yet. There are some very conflicting messages in the document. For one rhino ridge they say Africa and White rhinos in one spot then say the white rhinos and Asian small clawed otters in another and in another Indian rhinos and Asian small clawed otters. Whoever wrote this needs to learn to proof read! What is it? Indians or Whites? I guarantee you at a zoo as finicky about its geographic orientation Asian otters will not move into Africa. Also they talk about tropical America... in one spot its for migratory animals of Canada... Well we dont have many tropical animals. So are we converting it for a Canadian pavilion and losing the South American animals... a crying shame if they go that route. Or is it as advertised in the name and going tropical. However I'm just as likely to pitch a fit if they take my Australian friends from me. Build a new freaking pavilion for North America! It can be a fraction the size of Australiasia and still work because Canadian critters can deal with cold. And anyone who thinks Australiasian animals will fit in Oceania I demand to know where you think they will find the room for them? The orang exhibit is already undersized. They need to blow that out into the gibbon exhibit as is. That leaves what the free flight aviary which where will the birds all go? The waterfall space... sure that could be ripped out but its so pretty but it still wont give a ton of space. And the hornbill exhibit. You can get rid of Jonah but that space really could only work for the Komodos. Where will my wombats, tree kangaroos, regular kangaroos, echidna, wallabies, kookaburras, distinctly Australian critters going. Sadly unless a massive addition is budgeted which I'm not seeing budget for they are all gone and I will be furious. I would trade all of the Canadian stock for them.
I agree with TZFan about Oceania. Its not that large a pavilion and there is no way they can showcase a decent representation of the fauna/flora of that massive region. If they do go through with this plan I bet we will be left with a massively reduced diversity of species at our zoo. Honestly that seems to be the direction they want to take things and it disappoints me greatly. As for the delays, as already mentioned they make sense. How bad is the gorilla outdoor exhibit? In all my years of visiting the zoo I have never once gone to it before for some reason and their are not many pics of it on here that I can see.
For both, the answer is no. The tapir went to Parc Safari, but I don't know what happened to the dholes, though both are gone.
One way to get around space issues would be to make use of mixed exhibits. Maybe you could have a couple of the birds, reptiles, and the gibbons in and near the exhibit. Same with Rhino Ridge, which already has small-clawed otters in the current plan.
There is an interesting statement under Americas Pavilion - Future Tropical Americas on page 43: The building itself is interesting and can be renovated to be fully accessible. The protected indoor setting supports a renewed vision for the care, display and interpretation of smaller Australian and neo-tropical species. Mistake? Or blurring geographic lines?
In answer the the tapir, Tanuck, left in 2015. He had to go to make room for Nandu. Which oddly enough Nandu will likely leave the zoo for the exact same destination, Parc Safari. -+e zoo is officially without Dhole. I think Patty died sometime in 2016. If you check the birth, death and transfer thread from that year I think you will find it announced there. I don't think it was 2017 and I highly doubt it was 2015. Yi Qi in case you didn't notice the zoo shies away from any mixed exhibits no matter how common and beneficial they are. The savanna should serve as a great example. Zebras, kudu, white rhinos, eland and ostriches are virtually always in mixed exhibits together. Even giraffes find their way in a fair bit. The zoo houses all of these species separately. Sure the marabou are with the giraffe, a few geese are with the rhino, the kudu live with hornbills, a marabou and a vulture but thats nothing. All of these species live together peacefully in the wild and in zoos but still the zoo doesnt do it. Why Bull a white rhino killed a zebra in the early 1990s and they have been gun shy ever since. They used to have a great savana mix. White rhinos, grevys zebras, ostriches, impala or gazelle (I was young) and I think wildebeest. Some of the others don't mix. The wildebeest carry some disease they dont want the rest of the hoofstock getting. The warthogs dig and can be a danger to the hoofstock with broken legs from holes. Some giraffes are skittish. Hippos are dangerous. The only opportunity I see in Indo Malaya for a mixed exhibit will be the orangs with gibbons. That will NOT happen with the current gibbons. Lenny does not like others. They tried the babirusa with them and he would torment them. They are older so by the time they get around to the inside they will likely be gone. That brings the question will they just use the exhibit space for the orangs like they should either by doing two indoor orang exhibits or one massive one. The zoo could then decide do they bring in new gibbons, or simangs or langurs. All of which do well with orangs. My guess will be no. They could also go with a more rare but still achieve mix bringing in the babirusa or Asian small clawed otters. Birds need to be kept away they get fascinated with them and have been known to kill birds who escape from the aviary. Maybe they could move the turtles in too. Fish. Still no chance they will keep a fraction of the collection of either pavilion when merging without a massive extension. The only shot is that a brand new wing is built on into the tiger exhibits. They haven't budgeted for that. But they also haven't budgeted to remodel Australasia itself. It is probably built into the Canadian Wilderness but my guess is it will be an easy cut from the budget when it runs it to its inevitable overruns. Stuff always gets cut so cut that. I can live without seeing Canadian reptiles and fish and small mammals. Give me my Aussie friends any day of the week over them. Especially since we have two of like 12 wombats in all of North America and two of like 36 Tree Kangaroos and one of a handful of echidna. Under the current plans we will lose a lot. We should all feel privileged to have some of the species we do because some are extraordinarily rare in the AZA... some none accredited zoos have more and private collectors and sanctuaries but if we are talking cream of the crop zoos... We are truly lucky to have some of the species we do. Did you know... White backed vulture, Lloyd, is only one of two of his kind in North America! If they live Barbary Apes, Pinky and Shannon, are 2 of 2. The maybe 10 Chamois we have left are the last in North American zoos. Wombats, Arthur and Matilba, are 2 of 12. The olive baboons are 12 of 12. Spotted necked otters, Lila and Fred, are 2 of less than 20. Stellar's sea eagles, Zakkar and Zarina, are 2 of 27. Great Hornbills, Asha and Jonah, are 2 of 28. Secretary bird, Katani is 1 of 28. Echidna, Annie, is 1 of 30. Lion tailed macaques, Si Nikel, Gunter and Vina, are 3 of 30. Pygmy hippos, Kindia and Harvey are 2 of 32. The Elegant crested tinamou are 3 of 35. White breasted cormorants are 2 of 37. Tree kangaroos, Collins and Nokopo, are 2 of 50. Nile soft shelled turtle, Dotty, the only one in Canada and I don't think there are many other. Chinese giant salamander, Hannibal, is one of a handful. Wonder whats happening to him now?
I don't know the exact number years ago I had heard 12. Taking into account the deaths I knew of I just subtracted. Could be less by now. There were two maybe three males on exhibit in the main Chamois exhibit. I heard any others were females in the domain. But they were all old animals so their numbers could quickly drop. Just nee to look at the reindeer to see how quickly you can go from a decent sized group to just one. If there are now just two feel even more privileged to get to see something most others wont get a chance to see in person. And to be fair most of my numbers are estimates taken from reliable sources. I just cant account for any births, deaths, imports or exports from the time those numbers were presented. There may also be other rarities in the collection I'm not familiar with especially among the non mammals. Also if you want rare polar bears may be on the increase here in Canada but they are dwindling fast in the US with no real hope of replacements.
When Eurasia reopened in 2014 there were two pairs of older Chamois. That was direct from a dependable Eurasia keeper. Since then two have died.
A bit of an odd question perhaps, but when I visited the zoo on Wednesday, I saw a Pygmy Hippo (not sure if it was Harvey or Kindia) look as if they were kissing a Red River Hog through the barrier of their exhibit. I doubt they were kissing, but is this just something Pygmy Hippos do? Have they developed a friendship with the Hogs? Is it a sign of aggression? As you can probably tell, I’m very confused as to what happened, as I’ve never seen this behaviour in a Pygmy Hippo before.
That makes me a little sad to hear. My ex wasn't a big fan of zoos, he had a bit of the "zoos are prisons" mentality, but he fell in love with Tanuck and we really bonded over that. Tapirs became a frequent theme for our gifts to one another.
@TinoPup, Tanuck seems much better off at Parc Safari. If you go scrolling through their facebook page for photos of him his exhibit looks huge compared to Toronto. It's grass filled. He really has a nice home there. If I were him and had to pick I would go for Parc Safari myself. @evilmonkey239, the zoo did have European bison. Most of us on here call them by the name the zoo did, wisent. The zoo phased them out and let nature take its course. I do not recall when the last one passed. There is a thread on here about Toronto's former species. There's some updating I can do to that thread to bring it forward.
Thanks I just saw your other thread. I'm heading over to their website and facebook now for updates! Edit: Oh WOW, that place is huge!!! Two videos: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=997550713618095 https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1573148379391656
Wow, that’s a great looking enclosure! It’s massive and filled with rolling plains of grass. A quick question regarding the second video, is it safe for the people to be in the same exhibit as the Tapir? I don’t know much about Tapirs but they are pretty large animals and might be able to do some damage if aggravated.
I'm far from an expert on the subject, but when my ex and I became interested in them we spent a lot of time reading about them both in the wild and at other zoos, and I never came across anything indicating aggressive behavior or difficulty managing them.
