I am interested in what happens to those animals which breed very well in zoos, when there are more than the zoo wants. For example the Barbary sheep which is threatened in the wild seems to be a very good breeder and many zoos seem to have large mobs. This also includes animals the zoos are no longer wanting to keep and are phasing out. It would be a pitty if these animals are fed to the carnivores. Are they ever sold privatly. I have been running fallow deer for over 10 years and would love to have other more unusual species. If I had adaquate fencing would it be possable to buy animals from zoos which would help the zoo financially and allow them to concentrate more on their priority species.
In most cases animals that are proposed to be phased out, are displayed until they die of old age, or by natural attrition. Most zoos these days, especially in this region, manage their populations effectively, so they do not breed surplus animals, as there are frequently insufficient spaces in other zoos to move them to. ARAZPA institutions have a regional collection plan that indicates how many "spaces" they each have for adults of each species, and the regional populations are bred to fill these spaces. Private ownership of exotic species depends on your state or territory's individual rules. In most cases, apart from common domestic species, zoos do not sell animals to private individuals.
actually i will oppose your ruling zoopro, dubbo zoo for example has sold a few of its eland to a private zoo in griffith, and they are preparing to send them to this collector, for his new private zoo. Now monty, you could consider american bison, or bantang or really and large bovine actually, minus really exotic like the rhino and giraffe.
I would like to see Barbary Sheep in private hands, I woudl say contact a few zoos and offer to take any surplus they have, many Zoos have large numbers of Barbary Sheep (Monarto has 90+), Bison are only held by one breeder and are very expensive, i say look more at the Bovines, Water buffalo and Banteng, or you could always get a camel
i saw camales on burkes backyard a few yrs ago and they were only 800 bucks , tht what we pay for a good breeding dog!
Yes a camel would be nice, but it seems monty wants something different, Monty What other animals do you keep?
Zoo_Boy, it looks like you misread my text: "In most cases, apart from common domestic species, zoos do not sell animals to private individuals.". I did not mention private zoos, which would hold a zoo license. This is quite different to a private individual. And this is not my ruling as you put it, I'm just stating the facts.
I only have hungarian fallow deer. I know of many who run Mesopatanium fallow deer which are almost extinct in the wild. When I was at Monarto I saw they had a few Mesos. I would like to know where Monarto got their Mesos as the original farmers who obtained them spent a lot buying bucks from zoos overseas and importing them to New Zealand where their semen was colected and imported into Australia. Buy artifically inseminating european fallow does for several generations they are now almost pure. I saw the Barbarys at Monarto which seemed to have plenty of lambs and wondered what happened to the excess. I have also read that Dubbo has the largest number in Australia. Zebras are another species I would like to own. The common species is not endangered in he wild and I presume they would breed well in captivity. I do know they are very dificult to handle and transport due to their temprement. I have seen the Bison near Coryong and when in the USA saw farms with heards of hundreds. I might get some Water Buffalo as they are easily bought and usually have a good temprament, until yarded. I have worked with them once.
Monty, Western Plains Zoo currently holds 40 barbary sheep (13 males, 19 females and 8 unsexed), and Monarto Zoo holds 91 (15 males, 66 females and 10 unsexed). It is highly unlikley that any surplus would be made available to private individuals (unless you hold a zoo license), but you could try. None of the zoos holding zebra in the region would consider sending them to private individuals, as they are all covered by a highly managed ARAZPA breeding program. It is unlilely that you would be allowed to hold them as a private individual anyway. Your best bet might be to go with Bison or Water Buffalo, as you suggest.
well depends if you hold a zoolicense u can aquire any animal, eg) mogo zoo is run as private individuals, but are entered in arazpa, so if you wanted to aquire, under a private collection, not to public, stay on good side of oz zoos and rspca (against all private zoos) and b in breeding programs
The issue has nothing to do with who owns the animals, it's all about the type of license you have to keep those animals. Many ARAZPA zoos are privately owned, as you say, and Mogo Zoo is one of them. The type of license (if any) that you have will dictate which species you are able to hold. And a zoo license does not necessarily mean you can hold any animal. Each zoo must adhere to the restrictions of its license, and there are a number of exotic species that cannot be held in smaller zoos. It is not possible for individuals who do not hold zoo licences (except in very rare cases) to be part of ARAZPA's breeding programs. Only animals in ARAZPA-member institutions can be including in ARAZPA breeding programs. Staying on the "good side of oz zoos and rspca" will not help you to obtain animals if you do not have the correct licenses to hold them, and as previously mentioned, the major zoos and aquariums in the region rarely exchange non-domestic animals with private individuals who do not hold appropriate zoo licenses.
well what i was saying once you have the license, you be mates with other zoos and rspca, im saying that once you get the animals it will help do u work at a zoo Zoo pro
thats a shame that the "persian" fallow deer here in australia are actually hybrids. i was under the impression that they where actually a distinct species (as opposed to suspecies) from the european fallow.
The "persian" fallow deer run in zoos are often not pure. They have a smaller head, longer neck and are usually taller than Eurpean fallow deer. The most obveous diferance is the antlers which do not form palms like European fallows. The buck at Monarto appeared to have the proper mesopertanium antlers although the bus was over 150 m from him. It is interesting that no zoo would sell Zebras a I remember probobly twenty years ago a nearby farmer ocationaly had zebras as he had some involvment with a circus. I think animals where sent to him for breaks from preforming. I presume those animals were not bred from and were not replaced as public opinion on preforming animals in circus changed. Bantang would be unusual does anyone know anthng about them.
I know a bit about keeping them and i think Zuki does aswell i think you may be able to obtain them from Up North, like Darwin-ish, they are feral up there, I dont know much about the Mesopatamians at Monarto i will try and find out. Ohh i just thought of something what about Blackbuck
The Mesopotamian Deer at Monarto are hybrids. As pointed out earlier in this thread, some Oz breeders have put Meso genes in their stock and have been breeding them back. However, this does not qualify any of their offspring as pure-bred. Anyhow, in Europe we have a big EEP for Mesopotamian fallow deer and they are finally breeding satisfactorily. Also, there is a reintroduction component be that though in blemished Israel (and not Iran its home territory). Mores here: if the purebred species still exists it is to the detriment of its survival if hybrids with a closely related species (be it Euro fallow deer) are then bred up. It also is an ecological nightmare, if you then purport that by breeding back you claim they are pure-bred. Stick to conservation instead and not to dangerous breeding experiments. However, I think in certain small populations AI might offer a good alternative. You still require though a viable population to take samples from and it is a rather costly affair indeed. So, not wholesale applicable at present, perhaps with certain very rare taxa like northern white rhino.
i always thought that ancient mesopotamia included iraq, turkey, israel etc.. and therfore persian fallow originally where found in that part of the world. israel once boasted an impressive mix of afro-eurasian fauna that included deer and bears from europe and lions and ostriches from africa. i agree jelle that no matter how much "back-breeding" goes on, hybridisation is not a deireable conservation tool.
Mesopotamiam deer distribution Patrick, That's correct! Mesopotamian fallow deer were historically present in Iraq, Iran and Asia Minor (Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria). Same taxonomic splitters define Mesopotamians as a separate species Dama mesopotamica with a nominate species Dama dama distributed through Turkey. In actuality the Turkish fallow deer are equally endangered as very few pure-bred wild fallow deer Dama dama remain there. A captive-breeding project is also in operation by the Turkish nature conservation board DHKD.
I am glad Mesos are on the road to recovery. I have herd from somone who actually imported Meso semen into Australia that it was very difficult to find actual purebred mesos in zoos. He recons that some had hybrids they claimed to be purebreds. I think the semen imported into Australia came from a German zoo, but I may be wrong. From what I have read the best wild populations where in a reserve in Isral and there was bobut on the survival of the Iraq Iran population as they where in the boarder area where there has been a war for years. Where is the main captive breeding plann being done.
Mesopotamiam captive-breeding Monty, The main population for captive breeding is yet the Jerusalem herd as well as the semi captive herd at Hai Bar Carmel. From here reintroduction to several localities within the historical range of Mesopotamian fallow deer has proceeded. The Jerusalem herd is an integral part of the EEP. In 2004 growth was exponantial (6.6.2) to 55.86.2 individuals. In its homerange the Iranian captive-breeding project is led by the Dasht-e-Naz center in central Iran. In Dasht-e-Naz 28 individuals were held (2003 figures). Reintroduced populations exist in Ashk island (211 deer in 2003), Urumiyeh National Park. Other localities are Semeshkandeh (the Kronberg Opel Zoo line), Dez and Kharkheh Wildlife Refuges (wild populations), Miankotal enclosure in Arjan Protected Area, Parishan Protected Area and another island in Urumiyeh National Park. Unfortunately no population estimates here and the species is currently listed as Vulnerable. The Dama dama are listed as Low Risk\conservation dependent (the Turkish nominate species). The Iranians treat all wild breeding populations as pure-bred and the first batch to Semeshkandeh as hybrids. However this is based on the misconception that the deer were bred to an unrelated Dama dama stag. This individual and its descendants have been excluded from the later Kronberg Zoo breeding group. So, all captive deer within the EEP are to be treated as pure-bred stock. Jelle
