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Discussion in 'Fantasy Zoos' started by FelipeDBKO, 22 Mar 2016.

  1. FelipeDBKO

    FelipeDBKO Well-Known Member

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    If you're start to building a zoo, but can't start keeping large animals like big cats, great apes, large ungulates, etc, which animal would you choose to keep first?
     
  2. jayjds2

    jayjds2 Well-Known Member

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    There's a variety of animals that are available if you look hard enough and have enough money. For example, in America, I could have a non-accredited zoo with:
    Nile hippo
    Sloth bear
    Dingo
    Fossa
    Asian black bear
    Elephants
    Multiple species of lemur
    Some of the rarest amphibians in the world
    Several varieties of macaw
    Etc.
    It really just depends on where you look. To choose just one, though, I wouldn't be able to...
     
  3. TheMightyOrca

    TheMightyOrca Well-Known Member

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    I'm a sucker for parrots. Being in the US, a number of parrot species would be easy to obtain. I'd also look into small primates, small cats, and perhaps members of canidae.
     
  4. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    How easy is to obtain sloth bear or fossa if you are not AZA-acredited zoo? I think they are pretty difficult to obtain? For elephants, it will be easy if you have enough money.
     
  5. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    I will chose:

    Lemurs
    Mantled guereza
    New world monkeys (eg. black and golden howler, Venezuelan red howler)
    Spotted hyena
    Red kangaroo, red-necked walaby
    Two-toyed sloth
    Southern tamandua
    Serval/characal/ocelot
    Binturong, genet, palm civet

    Variety of birds (Macaws, vultures, king vulture, african fish eagle, storks, toucans, aracaris, turacos, passerine birds, flamingo, hornbills)
    Variety of reptiles, including venomous snakes (cobras, green mamba, pitvipers, rhinoceros viper, papuan taipan...)
    Variety of amphibians (mostly dart frogs, mantelas, and some spectacular species of frogs, like cinamon frog or lemur-eyed tree frog)
     
  6. jayjds2

    jayjds2 Well-Known Member

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    It's not very easy, but I have seen opportunities where I could have gotten both. I think it will be a long time before another sloth bear comes around, though.
     
  7. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Given you previous statements regarding current husbandry experience with exotic animals in general and reptiles/amphibians in particular, you might rather start with a cornsnake and a African clawed frog first...
     
  8. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Of corse that, that should be the case, first to start with more easy to keep, animals, but they are not spectacular and very attractive (corn snake or others) and still, If I got the opportunity, I will start directly with animals that I want, and will seek for practical assistance from someone experienced.. either that been EAZA tehnical support for zoos under construction in Eastern Europe or private breeder.
    Batto.
     
    Last edited: 23 Mar 2016
  9. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    And zoo without attractive- and spectacular enough animals might face financial difficulties, wich eventualy will results with closure of zoo and lost of one conservation facility with the potential for growth and wich may offer eventual space for holding some animals in need to be hold somewhere.

    So I don't like the sentence that previous experience is crucial for successfull keeping of animals, or even with starting to keep such. Knowledge (including watching working with animals, on YouTube, etc.) can done more than a half of the job to be done successfully, in my opinion, and yet that is variable from individual to individual owning to his education, experience, and personality/passion.

    After all, many people will not have chance/opportunity to work with particular animals and gain experience, yet that doesn't mean that they should not start directly on their own.

    For example, in US almost everyone can keep venomous snakes as pets home, and previous experience it's not prerequisite for that.
     
    Last edited: 23 Mar 2016
  10. jayjds2

    jayjds2 Well-Known Member

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    Just because we can, doesn't mean we should (in fact, most of us don't). There are permits varying on species, location, etc. that can be quite a pain to get. Most require previous experience. Start with the corn snake.
     
  11. FelipeDBKO

    FelipeDBKO Well-Known Member

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    Some of these species are very difficult to maintain, or simply are not available for a beginner zoo. For example, the elephant, they are one of the most expensive animals to keep, even if you can buy it for a slow price.
     
  12. jayjds2

    jayjds2 Well-Known Member

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    My point was that I could obtain them, quite easily, if I so chose. I'm not saying that it's a good idea, but a beginner zoo who starts with these species would be a level above the rest.
     
  13. FelipeDBKO

    FelipeDBKO Well-Known Member

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    Some good beginner animals:
    . Red kangaroo
    . Ring-tailed lemur
    . Meerkat
    . Asian small-clawed otter
    . Mantled guereza
    . Marmosets and tamarins
    . African penguin
    . Macaws, cockatoos and other parrots
    . Birds of prey
    . Chameleons
     
  14. jayjds2

    jayjds2 Well-Known Member

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    You make no mention of any snakes, amphibians, turtles, or tortoises and your choice of lizard is not ideal. A lot of snakes, frogs, and turtles/tortoises are quite easy to care for. Chameleons have a very simple husbandry aspect that is often overlooked, leading to stress. African penguins are easy to care for but not so easy to acquire.
     
  15. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Batto, but I had kept several tortoises (Herman's), and turtles when I was younger. They entered the town here from the local environment, from the hills, and I have fed them, kept several days, and I was releasing them back in the local wilderness. As they are native species here. They frequently can be seen in the periphery of the city in the parks and streets.

    One Herman tortoise was released in a fenced park, and last year I tried to find her (after some 10 years), and I was surprised when I discovered three tortoises together, each from different sizes (most probably from diffrent clutches durring years), and I suppose the tortoise had reproduced partenogenetically. And I have left them in the park. Otherwise I would rescued the tortoise and released them in the local wilderness.
     
    Last edited: 23 Mar 2016
  16. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    No I won't start with corn snake. I will go directly with species that I want, if I succeed to obtain them of corse, and if the authorities allow me.. I am not sure whether that's possible since there is not a realy captive venomous snake in this small country. Ok there is one weakly-poisonous colubrid (Malpolon monspessulanus) in a zoo.

    But law about animal welfare in the zoos, necessiate the staff to be appropriately educated and to have some experience. And there is not ban for keeping venomous snakes. But some inspections will ask for a plan for security in a zoo, that will include also the venomous snakes. And after all, we follow common EU regulations..
     
  17. FelipeDBKO

    FelipeDBKO Well-Known Member

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    Chameleons aren't very hard to keep. If you can keep a large mammal, you can keep a chameleon. I think that in more developed countries, chameleons aren't too attractive, but I think that here in Brazil they would do a nice sucess.
     
  18. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Then I seriously hope for the sake of the animals and the safety of the people around you that you will never have the chance to obtain any of these species. jayjds2 is absolutely right: just because you can obtain an animal doesn’t mean you should get it-especially when one lacks even the most basic level of personal practical husbandry experience (and the will and means to change anything about that) that no textbook quoting or Youtube video watching can replace. Temporarily poaching and keeping some wild Testudo tortoises as a kid doesn’t qualify for keeping species of venomous snakes that even experienced snakekeepers approach carefully. These are living fellow creatures with special needs, not things you can just obtain in an online grocery store and put on a shelf for your personal amusement, just because you saw them in a book or online and “want” them like a spoilt brat who rants for candy. You wouldn’t hand out a Bugatti Veyron to a novice driver, would you? Or drive it without previous training? So if you are serious about starting a zoo (which you have mentioned a few times already), you should start with yourself and learn even the basic practical aspeccts of exotic animal husbandry (with approachable species such as cornsnakes). Or stay with dairy farming and stop wasting your time.

    And no Felipe, chameleons are NOT the easiest species to keep, and your assumption that experience in large mammal husbandry automatically qualifies for chameleons is downright silly for various reasons. I’ve seen way too many specimens of allegedly “beginner’s chameleon species“ such as the Veiled chameleon kept inadequately and therefore suffering (not to mention more delicate species such as Brookesia sp.) in major zoos worldwide to see any point in your argumentation.
     
  19. Nikola Chavkosk

    Nikola Chavkosk Well-Known Member

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    Batto I think you are too conservative. And to be honest, you scared me a lot about all these conversations about venomous snakes.. Otherwise for know I don't have funds for zoo.
     
  20. savethelephant

    savethelephant Well-Known Member

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    If he scared you then he's doing his part of a responsible citizen and not letting someone take in extremely dangerous and venemous snakes who thinks that youtube videos are enough in handling those animals!!!