Zoochat Challenge North America 2022

A question on the Steve Irwin challenge specifically: since the region for endemism is Oceania, wouldn’t it make since to count animals native (and endemic) to anywhere within this region, as opposed to still requiring them to be native to Australia? This would allow for a few new species to count, which would be especially helpful for some regions where not much Australian fauna is on exhibit (the northeast comes to mind). The most beneficial species I think this would add is Matschie’s tree kangaroo, considering the overall lack of Australian mammal diversity in US zoos, but it would also add a number of birds (especially a few more-common-in-zoos species like pied imperial pigeon) and herps (tree monitors I think being the primary addition). Although I know you probably don’t want to change the challenge further, I think it might be warranted to lend a helping hand to those in some regions (again, the addition of the tree kangaroo alone would help some people out a bunch). If you don’t want to change that, I understand, just wanted to throw in my two cents. Plus, Steve Irwin loved all animals and seemed like a pretty nice guy so I think he’d understand.

Another question, just for clarification: ambassador animals seen in shows do count, right?

 

They have to be from Australia, it was expanded a bit only because so many species also live in surrounding islands. The birds and herps are easy to do in the northeast, it's just the mammals that requires a bit more work.

 

I understand the challenge in current form. I was asking Coelacanth to consider altering it in order to make it more accessible for all, especially the mammals. Seeing 15 species for one challenge is already a bit of a big ask (especially when the mammals are so inaccessible to some) so I was just wondering if this simple alteration would be considered.

 

Even in the Northeast, getting five Australian mammals is definitely doable. Bennett's Wallaby and Red Kangaroo are at a bunch of places, and I know bettong, tammar wallaby, and dingo are all kept by at least one northeast zoo also. And if you're concerned about never leaving a certain region of the country, I'm not sure if it's possible in any region to complete every challenge without traveling out of the region- and I think that's part of the point in the design of this challenge.

 

I disagree with this I don't know of anywhere with bettong anymore (since Animal Adventures apparently is out of them; they're a really awful roadside I wouldn't like to revisit anyhow), and I've never heard of Tammar Wallaby in the northeast. Dingo might not count, there hasn't been a ruling on them yet. Parma Wallaby and rock-wallaby are both gone now, as are echidna. Bronx and Staten Island have Feathertail Glider now which helps a little. Turtle Back has one of the grey kangaroos, so that makes another option. That puts us at four for the entire region unless there are any roadsides that have bettong and/or sugar glider.

EDIT: I forgot Capron Park may have bettong?

~Thylo

 

Yeah, there's a bettong at Capron Park. And the tammar wallabies are at Buffalo Zoo.

 

I would be shocked if there were no roadside zoos with Sugar Glider, they are an extremely common species in that type of facility.

IMO Dingo should count if that has any meaning.

 

Dingos are dogs, so they don’t count for the Australian challenge. The San Diego area alone could complete quite a few of the challenges in this list; again, my intention is to make this challenge in particular challenge a little more balanced for people who might live where these animals aren’t as common. I’m just proposing a suggestion to help people out.

 

Unless anything has changed this year, yes, I've been told before you can count these.

 

I know IUCN counts them as domestic now but they previously classified them as Canis dingo, which would make them endemic to Oceania.

 

Although Buffalo Zoo is in New York, I wouldn’t really call it part of the northeast in anything but name. It is significantly closer to Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Canada than it is to most other major New York zoos.

Even if they are, would it be ethical to encourage zoochatters to go to/support zoos that are more likely than not to have subpar husbandry? Some roadside zoos have good standards, and some people don’t mind going to those that don’t, but from a general perspective it would be best for everyone to not have to go to roadside zoos to have a reasonable chance of completing a challenge.

They did, but this challenge follows current taxonomy and not the taxonomy that fits your needs.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but their status as Canis dingo did not change, it's just considered a domestic species now.

 

That is incorrect. Under the listing for Gray Wolf (Canis lupus) it says the following:

"Note that this assessment follows Jackson et al. (2017) in regarding the Dingo, sometimes considered a subspecies of Grey Wolf (C. l. dingo), as a feral dog population derived from a domesticate, and hence as C. familiaris, along with all other free-ranging dogs."

 

As long as it's covered by Rule #4, yes. Regular public shows during regular public hours are fine. Seeing ambassador animals out in the public area is also fine. If it's some kind of limited/exclusive show or event, that's a different story and I'd need more details.

That seems like a reasonable change to make, though I'm actually inclined to do so in part because I think my original revision was too convoluted and this seems like a simpler way of changing it. I could also drop the numeric requirement lower, but if this simplifies things for everyone and makes it easier on some people that works too.

Keep in mind that generally, some of these challenges will be harder to complete than others depending on where you live - maybe impossible if you don't travel. It's hard to design a scavenger hunt challenge like this where that doesn't happen unless the categories are very broad or you only use common and widespread species.

Steve Irwin Challenge: 5 mammals, 5 birds, and 5 reptiles/amphibians native to Australia and/or Oceania. Only 1 of the 15 species may be naturally found outside of Oceania.

The feedback I've gotten so far is that several people feel Dingo should be allowed to count for something, which seems fair to me: either they're Domestic Dog or they're an Australian native. I am still deciding which challenge that will be, but for now go ahead and keep track of any you see so that they can be counted for something later. I will try and make a decision on this soon.

 

The recent posts on this thread indicate that this is a bigger point of contention than I realized - and I assume there has been extensive off-thread discussion about this topic as well. To appease both sides, why not make it so that the dingo is the one species which can’t be used for multiple challenges, and let people decide whether to count it as a dog or to count it as an Australian mammal? Just my two cents. If you’d rather definitively choose one side or the other, I understand. I have seen a dingo this year so I’ll wait to post my list from my first zoo until you make a decision.

I also want to commend you for a very creative idea for this year’s challenge. It’s made me quite intrigued to see just how many challenges I can complete and I’m interested to see what zoos pan out to be better or worse for it.

 

Cincinnati Zoo 1/12/22

White with Black Stripes or Black with White Stripes 1/3:
Plains zebra (Equus quagga)

Cat Got Your Tongue 7/9 species:
African lion (Panthera leo)
Malayan tiger (Panthera tigris)
Snow leopard (Panthera uncia)
Clouded leopard (Neofelis nebulosa)
Southern Brazilian ocelot (Leopardis pardalus mitis)
Black-footed cat (Felis nigripes)
Pallas’ cat (Otocolobus manul)

Planet of the Apes 4/6 species:
Western lowland gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla)
White-handed gibbon (Hylobates lar)
Sumatran orangutan (Pongo abelii)
Bonobo (Pan paniscus)

Another Dang Meerkat 1/4:
Meerkat (Suricata suricatta)

Bovine Bonanza 1/20:
Eastern bongo (Tragelaphus eurycerus)

Polly Wants 20 2/20 species:
Thick-billed parrot (Rhynchopsitta pachyrhyncha)
Kea (Nestor notabilis)

Duck Dynasty 5/18 species:
Marbled teal (Marmaronetta angustirostris)
Trumpeter swan (Cygnus buccinator)
Chiloe Wigeon (Mareca sibilatrix)
Common eider (Somateria mollissima)
Ruddy shelduck (Tadorna ferruginea)

One Drop, One Life 4/8 rattlesnakes, 1/6 vipers, 1/4 elapids 1/1 Komodo, 1/1 Heloderma:
King cobra (Ophiophagus Hannah)
Gaboon viper (Bitis gabonica)
Timber rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus)
Aruba Island rattlesnake (Crotalus unicolor)
Gila monster (Heloderma suspectum)
Dusky pygmy rattlesnake (Sistrurus miliarius barbourin)
Eastern diamondback rattlesnake (Crotalus adamanteus)
Komodo dragon (Varanus komodoensis)

Pick Your Poison 2/8 Dendrobatidae & 0/4 Mantellidae:
Dyeing dart frog (Dendrobates tinctorius)
Green and black poison dart frog (Dendrobates auratus)
Yellow-banded poison dart frog (Dendrobates leucomelas)

Champion of the Sun 1/3:
Sunbittern (Eurypyga Helias)

The Steve Irwin 0/5 mammals, 5/5 birds, & 2/5 herps:
Green tree monitor (Varanus prasinus)
Tawny frogmouth (Podargus strigoides)
Masked lapwing (Vanellus miles)
White-naped pheasant pigeon (Otidiphaps aruensis)
Kookaburra (Dacelo novaeguineae)
Solomon Island leaf frog (Cornufer guentheri)
Kea (Nestor notabillis)

25/36 trials in progress, 0/36 completed

 

This is indeed the route I've decided to go.

The Dingo Rule: Choose Your Own Taxonomy
Dingo and New Guinea Singing Dog may be counted for either the Steve Irwin or TinoPup's Namesake Challenge, but not both. You can choose to either follow IUCN's taxonomy on it or not, but you have to be consistent and only count it as one or the other: Domestic Dog or an Australian native mammal. Make sure you clarify in your post what challenge you're using it for.

This is an exception for one animal only. IUCN taxonomy still applies for everything else.

 

Alright, I'm excited to get my foot in the game!

All from the Bronx Zoo

Have Trunk, Will Travel 1/4
1) Malayan Tapir, Tapirus indicus

White with Black Stripes or Black with White Stripes 0/3

Cat Got Your Tongue 4/9
1) Tiger, Panthera tigris
2) Snow Leopard, Panthera uncia
3) Lion, Panthera leo
4) Leopard, Panthera pardus

An Unbearable Challenge 1/6
1) Brown Bear, Ursus arctos

Ring ‘n Ruff 2/3
1) Ring-Tailed Lemur, Lemur catta
2) Red Ruffed Lemur, Varecia rubra

Puny Primates 1/6
1) Pygmy marmoset, Cebuella pygmaea

Planet of the Apes 1/6
1) Western Lowland Gorilla, Gorilla gorilla gorilla

Three Little Pigs 0/0

Another Dang Meerkat 0/4

Bovine Bonanza 3/20
1) American Bison, Bos/Bison bison
2) Nubian Ibex, Capra nubiana
3) Thomson's Gazelle, Eudorcas thomsoni

Redemption Arc 0/1

You Must Be This Tall to (Not) Fly 1/4
1) Emu, Dromaius novaehollandiae

Pretty in Pink 0/4

Rookery Roundabout 2/8
1) Little Blue Penguin, Eudyptula minor
2) Magellanic Penguin, Spheniscus magellanicus

Duck Dynasty 18/18
1) Whopper Swan, Cygnus cygnus
2) Trumpeter Swan, Cygnus buccinator
3) Coscoroba Swan, Coscoroba coscoroba
4) Barnacle Goose, Branta leucopsis
5) Canvasback, Aythya valisineria
6) Common Goldeneye, Bucephala clangula
7) Lesser Scaup, Aythya affinis
8) Northern Pintail, Anas acuta
9) Common Merganser, Mergus merganser
10) Chinese Merganser, Mergus squamatus
11) African Pygmy-Goose, Nettapus auritus
12) Orinoco Goose, Neochen jubata
13) Yellow-Billed Pintail, Anas georgica
14) Ringed Teal, Callonetta leucophrys
15) Smew, Mergellus albellus
16) Bufflehead, Bucephala albeola
17) Tufted Duck, Aythya fuligula
18) Marbled Teal, Marmaronetta angustirostris

Parliament Is Now In Session 4/6
1) Snowy Owl, Bubo scandiacus
2) Great Horned Owl, Bubo virginianus
3) Burrowing Owl, Athene cunicularia
4) Southern White-Faced Owl, Ptilopsis granti

Polly Wants 20 9/20
1) Grey-Headed Lovebird, Agapornis canus
2) Red-Faced Lovebird, Agapornis pullarius
3) Hyacinth Macaw, Anodorhynchus hyacinthinus
4) Blue-Headed Macaw, Primolius couloni
5) Lesser Sulphur-Crested Cockatoo, Cacatua sulphurea
6) Lord Derby's Parakeet, Psittacula derbiana
7) Lesser Vasa, Coracopsis nigra
8) Cuban Amazon, Amazona leucocephala
9) Congo Grey Parrot, Psittacus erithacus

The Alfred Russell Wallace 1/1
1) Lesser Bird-of-Paradise, Paradisaea minor

The Edgar Allen Poe 3/6
1) Asian Azure-Winged Magpie, Cyanopica cyanus
2) Plush-Crested Jay, Cyanocorax chrysops
3) Red-Billed Blue-Magpie, Urocissa erythroryncha

The Big Squeeze 5/5
1) Burmese Python, Python bivittatus
2) Reticulated Python, Malayopython reticulatus
3) Green Anaconda, Eunectes murinus
4) Northern Boa, Boa imperator
5) Malagasy Tree Boa, Sanzinia madagascariensis

Slow and Steady 1/4
1) Radiated Tortoise, Astrochelys radiata

The Sobek Six-Pack 4/6
1) Chinese Alligator, Alligator sinensis
2) Ganges Gharial, Gavialis gangeticus
3) Nile Crocodile, Crocodylus niloticus
4) West African Dwarf Crocodile, Osteolaemus tetraspis

One Drop, One Life 14/20
1) Southwest Speckled Rattlesnake, Crotalus pyrrhus
2) Mojave Desert Sidewinder, Crotalus cerastes cerastes
3) Timber Rattlesnake, Crotalus horridus
4) Ethiopian Mountain Adder, Bitis parviocula
5) South American Bushmaster, Lachesis muta
6) Rhinoceros Viper, Bitis nasicornis
7) West African Gaboon Viper, Bitis rhinoceros
8) West African Bush-Viper, Atheris chlorechis
9) Mangshan Pitviper, Protobothrops mangshanensis
10) Indian Cobra, Naja naja
11) King Cobra, Ophiophagus hannah
12) Snouted Cobra, Naja annulifera
13) Komodo Dragon, Varanus komodoensis
14) Gila Monster, Heloderma suspectum

Pick Your Poison 4/8
1) Golden Poison Dart Frog, Phyllobates terribilis
2) Dyeing Poison Dart Frog, Dendrobates tinctorius
3) Green-and-Black Poison Dart Frog, Dendrobates auratus
4) Yellow-Banded Poison Dart Frog, Dendrobates leucomelas

Sharknado 0/4

Silk and Stinger 3/6
1) Cobalt Blue Tarantula, Cyriopagopus lividus
2) Malaysian Forest Scorpion, Heterometrus spinifer
3) Emperor Scorpion, Pandinus imperator

Release the Kraken 0/1

The Kingmaker 1/3
King Cobra - Bronx Zoo
King Penguin
King Vulture

Cold as Ice 1/3
Polar Bear
Arctic Fox
Snowy Owl - Bronx

Champion of the Sun 1/3
Sunbittern - Bronx
Sun Conure/Parakeet
Sun Bear
Sunbird (family Nectariniidae).

NZ Easy 1/1
1) North Island Brown Kiwi, Apteryx mantelli

(It was very easy)

The Steve Irwin 12/15
Mammals-
1) Feathertail Glider, Acrobates pygmaeus
2) Matschie's Tree-Kangaroo, Dendrolagus matschei
Birds-
1) Northern Masked Lapwing, Vanellus miles
2) Little Blue Penguin, Eudyptula minor
3) Double-Barred Finch, Stizoptera bichenovii
4) Emu, Dromaius novaehollandiae
5) White-Breasted Woodswallow, Artamus leucorynchus
Reptiles-
1) Merten's Water Monitor, Varanus mertensi
2) Mary River Turtle, Elusor macrurus
3) Western Spiny-Tailed Monitor, Varanus acanthurus brachyurus
4) Giant Snake-Necked Turtle, Chelodina expansa
5) Shingleback Skink, Tiliqua rugosa

One-Zoo Wonder 1/1
Bronx Zoo - The Big Squeeze, Duck Dynasty

The Coelacanth Stamp of Approval 7/12
Mammals-
Coquerel’s Sifaka - Bronx
Lion-tailed Macaque
Spotted Hyena - Bronx
Pygmy Hippo
1 bat (Chiroptera) - Bronx (Rodrigues Flying Fox)
Birds-
Hamerkop
Secretarybird
Amazonian (Blue-crowned) Motmot - Bronx
Greater Roadrunner
1 toucan (Ramphastidae) - Bronx (Keel-Billed Toucan)
Herptiles-
Giant Salamander (either Chinese or Japanese)
Frilled Lizard - Bronx
Mangshan Pitviper - Bronx
Lake Titicaca Water Frog
1 chameleon (Chamaeleonidae)

Bona Fide Rarity Hunter 1/3
1) Blue Whistling-Thrush, Myophonus caeruleus (Bronx Zoo)

TinoPup Namesake Challenge 0/1

By my count that's five challenges completed thus far! Not bad for a January visit.

~Thylo

 

Kansas City Zoo 1/11/22

Have Trunk, Will Travel
1. African bush elephant, Loxodonta africana

Cat Got Your Tongue
1. Lion, Panthera leo
2. Tiger, Panthera tigris
3. Leopard, Panthera pardus
4. Caracal, Caracal caracal
5. Sand cat, Felis margarita (between this and the prior, I am using one for Africa and one for Eurasia)

An Unbearable Challenge
1. Polar bear, Ursus maritimus

Ring 'n Ruff
1. Ring-tailed lemur, Lemur catta

Puny Primates
1. Cotton-top tamarin, Saguinus oepidus

Planet of the Apes
1. Chimpanzee, Pan troglodytes
2. Lowland gorilla, Gorilla gorilla
3. Bornean orangutan, Pongo pygmaeus
4. Northern white-cheeked gibbon, Nomascus leucogenys

Bovine Bonanza
1. Blue duiker, Philantomba monticola
2. Bongo, Tragelaphus eurycerus

Redemption Arc
1. Polar bear, Ursus maritimus

You Must be This Tall to (Not) Fly
1. Emu, Dromaius novaehollandiae

Pretty in Pink
1. Chilean flamingo, Phoenicopterus chilensis

Rookery Roundabout
1. Chinstrap penguin, Pygoscelis antarcticus
2. Macaroni penguin, Eudyptes chrysolophus
3. Gentoo penguin, Pygoscelis papua
4. King penguin, Aptenodytes patagonicus
5. Humboldt penguin, Spheniscus humboldti

Duck Dynasty
1. Southern screamer, Chauna fortata
2. Trumpeter swan, Cygnus buccinator
3. Orinoco goose, Neochen jubata
4. Black-necked swan, Cygnus melancoryphus
5. Black swan, Cygnus atratus
6. Magpie goose, Anseranas semipalmata
7. Chestnut teal, Anas castanea
8. Mandarin duck, Aix galericulata
9. Radjah shelduck, Radjah radjah
10. Ruddy shelduck, Tadorna ferruginea
11. Common shelduck, Tadorna tadorna

Parliament is Now in Session
1. Great-horned owl, Bubo virginianus

Polly Wants 20
1. Rainbow lorikeet, Trichoglossus moluccanus
2. Coconut lorikeet, Trichoglossus haematodus
3. Green-winged macaw, Ara chloropterus
4. African grey parrot, Psittacus erithacus

The Big Squeeze
1. Burmese python, Python bivittatus
2. Carpet python, Morelia spilota

Slow and Steady
1. Radiated tortoise, Astrochelys radiata

The Sobek Six-Pack
1. Slender-snouted crocodile, Mecistops cataphractus

Pick Your Poison
1. Anthony's poison arrow frog, Epipedobates anthonyi
2. Dyeing poiso frog, Dendrobates tinctorius
3. Green and black poison frog, Dendrobates auratus

Sharknado
1. White-spotted bamboo shark, Chiloscyllium plagiosum

The Kingmaker
1. King penguin, Aptenodytes patagonicus

Cold as Ice
1. Polar bear, Ursus maritimus

The Steve Irwin
1. Red kangaroo, Macropus rufus
2. Red-necked wallaby, Macropus rufogriseus
3. Huon tree kangaroo, Dendrolagus matschiei

1. Black swan, Cygnus atratus
2. Laughing kookaburra, Dacelo novaeguineae
3. Silver gull, Larus novaehollandae
4. Rainbow lorikeet, Trichoglossus moluccanus
5. Emu, Dromaius novaehollandiae

1. White's tree frog, Litoria caerulea
2. Woma python, Aspidites ramsayi
3. Carpet python, Morelia spilota

Breakfast of Champions
1. Dingo, Canis familiaris

Completed challenges:
Breakfast of Champions
Redemption Arc

 

@Chlidonias was kind enough to update the original 36 Trials post on the first page with all of the updates I've made thus far, so from now on you can refer to that first post and you'll know what the situation is. I've made a few small changes that I'd like to point out to everyone, almost all in the easier direction:

An Unbearable Challenge: now only 5 bears instead of 6
Edgar Allen Poe: now only 1 free-choice corvid required instead of 2
Rookery Roundabout: now only 6 penguins instead of 8
Champion of the Sun: Sunbird no longer counts. Must be Sunbittern, Sun Conure, and Sun Bear.
One Drop, One Life: now only 4 non-rattlesnake vipers instead of 6
Pick Your Poison: dropped the PDF requirement from 8 to 6 and the Mantella requirement from 4 to 3
NZ Easy: this challenge has been replaced. The replacement will not affect any current scores in the negative direction, but some may now be able to count it retroactively:

Nighttime Birding: see a Kiwi, Tawny Frogmouth, or a Night Heron (in an enclosed aviary). In case the owl challenge doesn’t fully scratch that nocturnal avian itch.

As far as I've been able to tell, these changes should not affect any of the current scores in the negative direction. Since we're now 2 weeks in and have an updated list at the beginning, please note that I will be far less open to making any changes from here on out. I’ve done my best to listen to feedback and make these challenges accommodating for people across regions, but at some point we need to move forward with what we have so people can keep track and make plans without constant confusion. I apologize for the lack of forethought and advanced planning on my part that could have avoided some of this, but hopefully we have things more or less sorted out now