Join our zoo community

ZooChat Cup finals: Bronx vs Omaha

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 17 Jan 2020.

?

Bronx vs Omaha: Aquatics

Poll closed 20 Jan 2020.
  1. Bronx 3-0 Omaha

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Bronx 2-1 Omaha

    5.7%
  3. Omaha 2-1 Bronx

    77.1%
  4. Omaha 3-0 Bronx

    17.1%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    3,288
    Location:
    Melbourne
    It’s the one and only time two American zoos will go head to head in this American election year, and I fear the electoral college is tilted ever so slightly in the flyover state’s favour.
    Aquatics.
     
  2. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

    Joined:
    1 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    7,588
    Location:
    Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
    Here is an excerpt from my Snowleopard's 2018 Road Trip thread:

    Scott Aquarium – This building is the biggest and best aquarium to be found at any American zoo and contains around 1.3 million gallons of water. There are only around a dozen zoos in the USA with aquariums inside them and I'm fairly certain that I've visited them all. No one comes close to Omaha yet again. I counted only 29 exhibits but there are some tanks that are stunning, and with the connected Conference Center and outdoor Sea Turtle Cafe I'm actually surprised that the zoo doesn't charge an extra admission fee just for the aquarium. Once inside, the first exhibit is a Shoaling Tank with hundreds of Barred Flagtail and African Moony, then next up is a Predatory Fish tank, Japanese Giant Spider Crabs, a beautiful, open-topped Coral Reef exhibit, a Caribbean Reef tank, a Giant Pacific Octopus exhibit, a trio of Sea Nettle species in tanks all near each other, plus puffins, penguins, seahorses, a gorgeous 30-foot wide Amazon tank with Toco Toucans in the treetops, and lots more. Best of all is Shark Reef, with a 70-foot walk-through tunnel and this line-up of species: Loggerhead Sea Turtle, Green Sea Turtle, Sandbar Shark, Nurse Shark, Zebra Shark, Wobbegong, Goliath Grouper, Southern Stingray, Tarpon, Horse-eye Jack and Crevalle Jack.

    Not only that, but there are other aquatic areas within Omaha's famous zoo:

    Elsewhere in the zoo is the world's largest Nocturnal House (Kingdoms of the Night) with a terrific Australian exhibit that has vast underwater viewing windows for Johnson's Freshwater Crocodile, Krefft's River Turtle, Pink-bellied Side-necked Turtle, Fly River Turtle and Northern Australian Snake-necked Turtle. There is an exhibit area called The Swamp with a quarter of an acre devoted to aquatic creatures such as American Alligators, Spectacled Caimans, Beavers, Nutrias, Eastern Indigo Snakes and other water denizens. Heading out the door is yet another huge exhibit with underwater viewing, this time for American Crocodiles, Alligator Snapping Turtles and Common Snapping Turtles.

    There are exhibits filled with water in the vast tropical house known as Lied Jungle featuring Pygmy Hippos, tapirs, otters, crocodilians, etc. Omaha is going to win this contest and my vote is 3-0 to the zoo from Nebraska. There's even one of the largest aviaries in North America that is devoted almost entirely to aquatic birds. I'm not even allowed to count North America's largest pinninped pool that opens in just over 6 months, will cost more than $27 million, and feature a wave machine for California Sea Lions.
     
    Malawi, twilighter and CGSwans like this.
  3. nczoofan

    nczoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Jul 2018
    Posts:
    1,466
    Location:
    Texas
    So let me preface by saying I am voting 2-1 for Omaha. But I wanna make a case for the Bronx Zoo to get a point.

    The Bronx Zoo does lack a designated aquarium or aquatic section. It also lacks a display of saltwater fish. Yet the zoo has a nice variety of freshwater fish, and according to their 2016 annual report, 70 species on display. These exhibits are scattered around the zoo, so let me give you a run through.

    Jungleworld has the largest aquatic exhibit in the zoo, the river for gharials which is also home to fly river turtle, tinfoil barb, giant gourami, among many other species. Also within Jungleworld are tanks for roti-island snake necked turtle/sailfin lizard, mudskipper/archerfish, and several more smaller tanks.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Congo Gorilla Forest also has several fish tanks. I don’t really know much about fish, so I can’t really speak more into what species they hold.

    [​IMG]

    Besides these two exhibits: Madagascar also has 2 displays for endangered cichlids and the children's zoo has 2 aquatic tanks. But this category is not only about fish.

    Looking at aquatic reptiles the Bronx Zoo preforms much better. One major thing that should be of note is the Bronx Zoos freshwater turtle collection. The zoo breeds and exhibits many endangered turtle species such as roti-island snake necked turtle, chinese yellow headed box turtle, sulawesi forest turtle, painted river terrapin, chinese big-headed turtle, mary river turtle among many others. For crocodilians the zoo has cuban crocodile, false gharial, gharial, american alligator, Chinese alligator, nile crocodile, and I believe african dwarf crocodile.

    I don’t know if amphibians count for this challenge, but if so the Bronx Zoo has 40 species. Their key species is the kihansi-spray toad which prior to its extinction, existed in the wild at a single waterfall in Tanzania. The zoo is one of two zoos to breed the species and has begun reintroductions.

    Well to start off talking about birds the zoo has an Aquatic Bird House. I know all inhabitants of this house will not count for this challenge, but the consistent theme throughout this house is the interactions of bird species with water. Some species in this house include little penguin, least tern, scarlet ibis, anhinga, storm’s stork, brown pelican, Peruvian pelican, roseate spoonbill, tufted puffin, and african spoonbill.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Right outside this house are 3 exhibits for aquatic birds as well. A massive wetland aviary for the only breeding population of lesser adjutant stork in the country, an exhibit for american flamingos and lastly the SeaBird Aviary. This half-acre space is home to magellenic penguin, inca tern and several other species of bird.

    [​IMG]

    Other aquatic bird exhibits are spread around the zoo. These include exhibits for white-naped crane, red-crowned crane, chilean flamingo, barnacle goose, tundra swan, among other species. Lastly for aquatic mammals the Bronx Zoo has California Sea Lion and Small-Clawed Otter (2 exhibits).

    So does the Bronx Zoo deserve to win this, no. It lacks a set fish display, has less fish species than Omaha, and has no saltwater displays. Yet the zoo still has plenty of aquatic exhibits (even a bird house themed around aquatic birds). So I am going 2-1 Omaha.
     
  4. antonmuster

    antonmuster Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    21 Aug 2014
    Posts:
    327
    Location:
    europe
    ...that almost makes me want to vote 2-1 Bronx!
     
  5. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    20 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    10,699
    Location:
    Connecticut, U.S.A.
    3-0 Omaha sounds excessive and a bit unfair to me considering Bronx has an entire building dedicated almost entirely to aquatic birds, has a massive seabird aviary, has extensive programs for various water loving mammals, birds, reptiles, and amphibians as well as a collection of endangered cichlids and other fishes from Madagascar, Asia, and Africa, and has unparalleled conservation efforts that includes aquatic programs all around the world. Omaha, however, has a decent aquarium so I will lean towards them here.

    ~Thylo
     
    Malawi, NSU42, jayjds2 and 3 others like this.
  6. TZDugong

    TZDugong Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Nov 2017
    Posts:
    1,121
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Yeah, this echoes my thoughts very well The Aquatic Bird House and excellent Sea Bird Aviary are what solidified my 2-1 vote.

    Does anyone have photos of Omaha's Aquarium? This seems to be their main selling point.
     
  7. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    20 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    10,699
    Location:
    Connecticut, U.S.A.
    Below are some. It's a good but overall not very standout aquarium:
    Scott Aquarium - ZooChat
    Scott Aquarium - ZooChat
    Scott Aquarium- Penguin - ZooChat
    Scott Aquarium - Shark Tunnel - ZooChat
    Scott Aquarium-Amazon River Tank - ZooChat
    Scott Aquarium - ZooChat
    Scott Aquarium - ZooChat

    ~Thylo
     
    Malawi likes this.
  8. TZDugong

    TZDugong Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Nov 2017
    Posts:
    1,121
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Thanks, although just judging from the photos this looks pretty average (Pittsburgh Zoo's aquarium looks better from a "zoo-aquarium standpoint). If this is really Omaha's main area I might be tempted to go 2-1 Bronx.
     
    ThylacineAlive likes this.
  9. NSU42

    NSU42 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    19 Sep 2015
    Posts:
    249
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    In terms of a zoo aquarium I would say it is far from average. I have not been to Pittsburgh, so I can not judge it in comparison, but Omaha has an excellent aquarium. It far out ranks any of the aquariums I've seen in Minnesota, Oklahoma City, or even Indianapolis. I was actually highly disappointed with Indianapolis' Oceans Complex because I was expecting something more on the level of Omaha's aquarium. I feel like (not going to go searching for posts at 2:30am here), when it comes to the best zoo aquariums in the US on this site, it's normally down to either Pittsburgh or Omaha. So saying it is second best is nothing to scoff at. That being said, I voted 2-1 Omaha, as from what I have seen the dedicated Sea Bird Aviary and Aquatic Bird Building at the Bronx is excellent.
     
  10. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2016
    Posts:
    6,553
    Location:
    .
    Finally, one where I've visited both zoos :) I'm voting 3-0 Omaha. Beyond penguins, I don't consider the birds as aquatics - they're birds - and while Bronx does have some areas with fish, turtles, etc. so many are unlabelled that they seem to be more of an afterthought to fill space.
    I didn't get to spend as much time in Omaha's aquarium as I would have liked, due to noisy children everywhere, but it's on par with all but the largest aquariums in the USA and fits many species in.
    Omaha also has their own jungle, along with integrating fish and other species into the desert dome and world of darkness. There's also a ray touch tank, and a touch tank in the aquarium with small shark species.

    Here's a youtube video of the whole aquarium:
     
    snowleopard likes this.
  11. TZDugong

    TZDugong Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Nov 2017
    Posts:
    1,121
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I'm obviously not in a great position to judge the Aquarium give that I've never been to Omaha, but after seeing the video walkthrough I'll stand by my statement that it looks pretty average (although I totally understand you point-of-view and will probably enjoy it more than I expect to when I visit). A main advantage of Omaha's aquarium seems to be its size, I remember someone saying it's around 1.3 million gallons, but I'm at a point where I've seen enough aquariums that I don't really care how big or how much water a tank has. I would much rather see a smaller tank that is well-designed with interesting inhabitants than a large, boring tank. I think another problem I have is that the Aquarium seems to be fairly standard and predictable, it seems to mostly be; standard walk-through tank, standard Penguin exhibit and a lot of small-to-medium sized standard tanks set against the wall. These tanks all look perfectly fine for their inhabitants mind you, but it's nothing I haven't see many times before.

    If a large part of a bird's life takes place in and around water I see no reason why they shouldn't count for the cup imo. Obviously not all birds will count but that's a lot more than just Penguins.
     
    ThylacineAlive and nczoofan like this.
  12. antonmuster

    antonmuster Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    21 Aug 2014
    Posts:
    327
    Location:
    europe
    But by that logic aquatic or wetland birds (or mammals, reptiles, or amphibians for that matter) would not count at all in the biome matches, because they certainly do not pertain to the other biome match categories, i.e. temperate forests, mountains, poles, grasslands, deserts, or tropical forests.
     
    nczoofan likes this.
  13. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    3,288
    Location:
    Melbourne
    @TinoPup is under no obligation to consider any species that they do not view as relevant to the biome, however for the sake of the wider audience I will clarify that I *do* intend this category to encompass such habitats as marshes, mangroves and swamps, which seems consistent with the displays in Bronx’s aquatic bird house.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2020
    TinoPup and antonmuster like this.
  14. nczoofan

    nczoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    5 Jul 2018
    Posts:
    1,466
    Location:
    Texas
    You are fully allowed to vote on which species you wish to include, but I am say that I think it is completely wrong to turn a category named aquatics into fish/aquariums.

    Where are we to count many of these bird species if not in this category? Should we simply ignore them for this competition and hinder what imo is the Bronx Zoo’s strength? Or should we just create some category called “Air” for all birds except penguins. Mangroves, swamps and coastline all ecosystems portrayed in the ABH are aquatic. They are water dependant ecosystems and therefore the avian species that live their are as well.

    Fish labelling in zoos is notoriously bad, so this is in no way a phenomenon. Some of the other great zoos of the world, San Diego for example also have this issue.

    Lastly some areas with turtles is an unfair way to dismiss what is one of the most important breeding centers for Southeast Asian turtles in the country. The zoo has had several firsts in its breeding efforts, and to discount this fully in favor of an aquarium where few of the species have conservation value is imo problematic.
     
    jayjds2 and NSU42 like this.
  15. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2016
    Posts:
    6,553
    Location:
    .
    Ah, that is slightly different from how I would define "aquatic", and important to know :)

    In that case -
    Omaha has a variety of ducks in their desert dome. The jungle has species like hamerkop, hadada ibis, and black crake, and more ducks and geese.
    The aquarium has multiple puffin species, multiple penguins, common murre.
    Their large outdoor aviary is almost all aquatic species - flamingos, roseate spoonbill, ibises, ducks and teals and wigeons and geese, swans, egrets, inca terns, white stork and crowned cranes.

    Species-for-species, they're ultimately rather similar, bird-wise.

    It should also be noted that some species in the aquatic bird house at the bronx aren't really aquatic species; some live in forests on islands, and some are terrestrial. Crested coua, kiwi, tawny frogmouth, kookaburra...
     
  16. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2016
    Posts:
    6,553
    Location:
    .
    It may not be a phenomenon, but it's certainly a factor. Omaha labels almost all of theirs. They've been rather successful with reproduction in fish species.

    I'm not fully discounting it, and as I said, the aquarium is only a part of what Omaha has to offer. Their are turtle, frog, and other aquatic reptile/amphibian species throughout the zoo.
     
  17. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

    Joined:
    1 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    7,588
    Location:
    Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
    I already posted 3 paragraphs near the top of this thread, but I am commenting again to address the Scott Aquarium at Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo. Aquariums are often judged in terms of size, and with 1.3 million gallons the building has a tremendous amount of water in approximately 30 exhibits. It truly could be a stand-alone attraction, as there is a Conference Center and Cafe attached. Of the 170 public aquariums in the United States, I'm guessing that only around a dozen have more gallons of water than the building inside the zoo in Omaha. I've visited more than 100 stand-alone aquariums in my lifetime and not many can top the one that I saw for 'free' in Omaha.

    The drawback to Omaha's aquarium, from a zoo nerd's perspective, is that it's a bit of a 'jack of all trades' without a theme and instead a little bit of everything in terms of aquatic species. There's a Shoaling Tank, a Predatory Fish tank, Japanese Giant Spider Crabs, a Coral Reef exhibit, a Caribbean Reef tank, a Giant Pacific Octopus exhibit, a trio of Sea Nettle species, plus puffins, penguins (around 85 of them), seahorses, a 30-foot wide Amazon tank with Toco Toucans in the treetops, and a 900,000 gallon Shark Reef tank with a 70-foot walk-through tunnel amidst smaller exhibits. Zoo nerds who want rarities instead of a standard lineup of species might be slightly disappointed.

    Having said that, with 1.3 million gallons the Scott Aquarium is one of the largest facilities of its kind in North America and would even be one of the largest aquariums in all of Europe if it was a separate facility. Both Berlin and Hamburg charge an extra admission fee for their aquariums while Omaha's is included with a ticket. Pittsburgh's PPG Aquarium is not even close in quality to the one in Omaha, although Pittsburgh could well be the #3 zoo in America in terms of having an Aquarium on its grounds. The closest 'competitor' to Omaha's aquarium would perhaps be the Point Defiance Zoo as it has TWO Aquariums on its acreage. There is the Pacific Seas Aquarium that opened in 2018, is 35,000 square feet in size and cost more than $51 million. A totally separate building, called the South Seas Aquarium, combines to give Point Defiance a nice one-two aquatic punch. :)

    I've probably visited every single zoo in the USA with an aquarium (there are only around 15 facilities) and here would be a list of the best zoos in America that include aquariums:

    #1 - Omaha

    A big gap...then...

    #2 Point Defiance
    #3 Pittsburgh
    #4 Toledo

    All of this information is not even including the quarter-acre swamp set of habitats in the world's largest Nocturnal House (Kingdoms of the Night) or the many aquatic elements inside one of the world's largest Tropical Houses (Lied Jungle). I love the Bronx Zoo, but I'm sticking with a 3-0 score for Omaha as I feel that the zoo from Nebraska is totally dominant in this category.

    Now there are 28 people voting for Omaha and 4 voting for the Bronx Zoo. Have any of the 4 ever toured the aquarium in Omaha? Either 3-0 Omaha or 2-1 Omaha is fine, but Bronx winning this contest is a bizarre concept.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2020
    TinoPup and amur leopard like this.
  18. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    23 Feb 2019
    Posts:
    4,145
    Location:
    London
    I have not visited either collection but my impression from the video was that the aquarium was really quite good given that it is inside a world-class zoo. I also have no idea about how it compares to zoos like Pittsburgh's aquarium, but its aquariums seems on par with Berlin's here in Europe, though of course very different in style.

    Overall, I would definitely give Bronx a point from its freshwater habitats, but Omaha does have an entire aquarium, however mediocre it is considered in the states. ;)

    If I have got anything wrong, please correct me. :)
     
    TZDugong likes this.
  19. TZDugong

    TZDugong Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    17 Nov 2017
    Posts:
    1,121
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Yes that's a lot of water but, as with a lot of aquariums, sheer water volume can be decieving.
    So 70% of the water is in one tank. This is why I don't really care about sheer water volume in aquariums, most of the water in the facility is in a tank that looks like it's straight out of a SEA LIFE. I'd take Bronx's much smaller Asian Tank in JungleWorld any day over a tank I can see in literally any aquarium.
    Personally I think this:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Is a lot better than this:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Never been to Point Defiance although their Aquarium looks very nice.
    I believe it's only 2 people who have voted for Bronx. I've never been to Omaha, would love to visit though, although I believe the other Bronx voter @Coelacanth18 has been to Omaha.
     
    nczoofan likes this.
  20. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

    Joined:
    1 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    7,588
    Location:
    Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
    Two of the Bronx voters changed their vote to 2-1 Omaha after my message, which means that now 30 people are voting for Omaha and only 2 for Bronx. I'm happy with that, because every single vote counts. I think that San Diego was eliminated in the last round simply because of one or two individuals...yikes! ;)

    By the way, @TZDugong that Amazon tank at the Pittsburgh Zoo's PPG Aquarium is my highlight of the facility. It's spectacular. There aren't a lot of photos from the Scott Aquarium in Omaha because the building is fairly dark and not great for photography, plus Omaha gets double the number of annual visitors (circa 2 million) than Pittsburgh and whenever I've been to Omaha the aquarium has been bursting at the seams with visitors and that makes photography difficult at the best of times.
     
    TZDugong likes this.