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ZooChat Cup Grand Final: Prague vs Berlin Zoo

Discussion in 'Games, Simulators, Quizzes & Competitions' started by CGSwans, 15 May 2018.

?

Who wins the ZooChat Cup?

Poll closed 18 May 2018.
  1. Berlin Zoo

    53.5%
  2. Prague

    46.5%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member

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    And here we are. The top two seeds have lived up to their billing to meet in the final.

    Prague's run was effortless, really. It stormed through Artis, Colchester, Bristol and Doue-la-Fontaine with the loss of just two votes across the four matches. Chester put up more of a fight, but could do no better than 26-11. Along the way Prague has won matches on all categories.

    Berlin had a relatively easy time of it too, holding Stuttgart to nil, seeing off dangerous floater Cabarceno 22-11 on carnivores, thrashing Antwerp and beating Plzen by a surprisingly comfortable 18-5 on birds and carnivores, then knocking over Burgers on a somewhat controversial 21-15 match on ungulates and ectotherms.

    And now, to decide things. Both zoos will get to play to one strength - birds - and defend one slight weakness: carnivores.

    Let's go.
     
  2. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member

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    I expected this to be an easy win for Berlin, and I did vote for it, but while typing this post I realized the great bird exhibits are actually quite even...

    Birds:
    Berlin, of course, has the two excellent bird houses. Both have enormous collections in aesthetically pleasing buildings and outdoor aviaries. The African walkthrough in the center of the new bird house felt a bit bare, but the very lush Asian walkthrough next to it made up for that. I've not seen the kiwi enclosure, but apparently it is decently designed and the animals are often active.
    Besides that are a very large walkthrough aviary for waterbirds and a giant aviary for condors, both very good for the animals and definitely interesting exhibits. The lakes throughout the zoo hold very many waterfowl species and large group(s?) of flamingos and pelicans. Other things like the penguin house, shore aviary, and large ground birds mixed in with hoofstock or in single exhibits (rhea, ostrich, ground hornbill, crane, stork), along with the very recently renovated area for birds of prey definitely make this a very good zoo to visit when you want to see birds.

    Bird highlights in Berlin are (and are definitely not limited to) Andean flamingo, James's flamingo, trumpet manucode, Northern brown kiwi, kagu, golden-headed manakin, spangled cotinga, purple roller, Arctic tern, Australian pelican, long-tailed fiscal, channel-billed cuckoo, white-browed coucal, copper sunbird, greater yellownape woodpecker, white-eared catbird, Indian pond heron, pale-billed aracari, pied hornbill, palmnut vulture, Visayan tarictic hornbill, and many more.

    Prague doesn't have a bird house yet, because it's still being built. I think upon completion this challenge might have gone differently, but as of now it's hard to say. I'd say Prague's best bird enclosure is the Sichuan house, which is actually quite comparable to Berlin's bird house's Asian walkthrough, but with a completely different atmosphere and more interesting species.
    The shoebill exhibit, surrounding crane exhibits and waterbird aviaries are definitely very well designed, and I think a setup like this works better than just having a lot of species in a lake (like Berlin's ducks) or a lot of species in a huge aviary (like Berlin's other waterbirds).
    Prague also has a giant vulture aviary, and I'd say Prague's definitely beats Berlin's condor aviary because Prague's is built against a giant cliff face. However, Prague's other birds of prey are housed in fairly unimaginative cages on the edge of the zoo, not quite as nice as Berlin's bird of prey area (which I haven't seen since the renovation, but I have seen a few pictures). Other bird enclosures are dotted around the zoo, for ravens, owls, ibises, lammergeiers, flamingoes, pelicans, penguins, and a few rows of nice but unimaginative aviaries for African and Asian passerines and hornbills, which work well in summer but are all but empty in winter...
    Exhibits that do stand out are a duo of good spacious walk-in aviaries for European waterfowl, a few very nice small aviaries for European forest birds, the Indonesian pavilion (probably great for birds, but not for visitors trying to see birds), and an excellent row of lorikeet aviaries overlooking the entire zoo.

    Bird highlights in Prague are (and are definitely not limited to) chestnut-bellied sandgrouse, four-banded sandgrouse, shoebill, coleto, Edward's fig parrot, silver-eared mesia, greater yellownape woodpecker, Gray's piping-guan, helmeted friarbird, horned lark, large fig parrot, lesser yellow-headed vulture, Peruvian thick-knee, metallic pigeon, spot-billed pelican, Sunda whistling thrush, vernal hanging-parrot, Visayan tarictic hornbill, Luzon hornbill, Siberian rubythroat, silver-eared mesia, hooded pitta and many more.
    Off-show species that will hopefully make it into the new bird house are green magpie, Javan green magpie, Lear's macaw, green oropendola and New Guinea bronzewing (though those last ones are already visible from the path, if one knows where to look).

    In general I prefer Berlin in this match-up (the fact that they have a bird-of-paradise and a cotinga may or may not contribute to this), but it's a close one... Berlin has the two very nice bird houses which have most of the collection, whereas Prague's collection is a lot more spread out in very different enclosures.

    Carnivores:
    This will be less in-depth than the text wall for birds above, but this is definitely also important. I think I'm slightly in favour of Prague, but I think Berlin's better bird collection makes up for that.

    I prefer Prague's carnivore house over Berlin's. Architecturally to me it's just a lot more pleasing, and the consistent clean style in my opinion works better than Berlin's cages. Lions and tigers (if the tigers are still present? They're not on zootierliste... Does something else live there now?) are better off in Berlin's carnivore house though, with spacious and well-planted outdoor exhibits. However, all other cats get the upper hand in Prague, where they have more organic and lush aviaries than in Berlin.
    For bears it's better to go to Berlin as they have a lot more species, all in decent to good enclosures, whereas Prague's polar bear exhibit is probably the worst carnivore enclosure in the zoo. Berlin's sloth bear and giant panda enclosures are good, the other species (Asian black bear and polar bear) are in grottoes, but quite spacious ones.
    Prague does get outdoor enclosures for large carnivores right though, as is definitely visible in the great outdoor exhibits for Amur leopard and Siberian tiger. The enclosure for brown hyenas is also good.
    The main pinniped enclosures are quite comparable I'd say, but Berlin has a few other enclosures and species as well, whereas Prague only has the fur seals.
    In small carnivores (including smaller cats and canids) I think Prague has the upper hand, as I'm quite sure they have more species of a larger diversity.
    Prague has brown hyenas, so it wins against Berlin for hyenas as Berlin doesn't have any.

    For me, I think it comes down to this:
    Big cats: Berlin = Prague (Berlin better for lions, Prague better for tigers and spotted cats)
    Small cats: Berlin = Prague (4 species compared to 5, none really stick out)
    Canids: Berlin < Prague (3 species compared to 6, wolves better at Prague)
    Small carnivores: Berlin < Prague (8 species compared to 15, otters and mongooses better at Prague, though Berlin's two Malagasy carnivores do make this a bit tougher)
    Hyenas: Berlin < Prague
    Pinnipeds: Berlin > Prague
    Bears: Berlin > Prague

    I wonder how Prague's future projects for giant panda and polar bear will change this match-up!

    -

    Phew, that took long to type! Sorry if I made any mistakes :D
     
  3. lintworm

    lintworm Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    I didn't see these species last Saturday, but with the Coucal and Sunbird possibly unsigned and thus overlooked in the Walkthrough. The Arctic tern has been replaced by Common tern. The woodpecker was not on show at least, but the only Red-bellied fruit doves in a European zoo made up for that. Also don't forget the huge amount of African passerines, like Quail finch, currently kept in the Bird house.

    This is a very tough choice and I am currently leaning towards Prague for birds, though Berlin has very visible Kiwi (birds not the fruit or people), which should normally trump any other argument....

    Prague has some of the best bird enclosures in Europe in the Sichuan house and the large aviaries at the hill. The rest is less imaginative, but most of Berlin's enclosures can't be called that either....

    For carnivores I am slightly leaning towards Berlin the Panda enclosure is really good (will upload some pictures soon) and the bear and tiger and lion enclosures also easily trump Prague. It is unfortunate the Carnivore house is currently being renovated, as once it is finished it will easily be better than what Prague has to offer (except the Jaguar enclosures, which will remain small...). I also really like the pinniped enclosures in Berlin, especially the Sea lion tank (the Northern fur seal have left though). Prague has more species, but overall none of the Berlin enclosures are of a more consistent quality and this is where the Leopards and especially Polar bears let Prague down....

    Overall Berlin just might have the edge... So I am parking my vote there for now, but it is very close.
     
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  4. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member

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    @lintworm the Arctic tern was kept together with the group of common terns, I'm not sure if it's still there but it's still signed on zootierliste. The woodpecker on my visit in 2016 was in an aviary in the Asian section of the new bird house, either together with the pied hornbills or right next to the pied hornbills. Unfortunate if it went off-show or passed away, as that'd just leave Plzen (also only one individual I believe) and then Prague's group in the Sichuan house. I didn't see the coucal or sunbird in 2016 either, but the coucals were signed in the African walkthrough then.
     
  5. lintworm

    lintworm Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    Only Common terns were signed last weekend and I saw only one of those (and loads of Inca tern). I remember the coucal from 2015, but didn't see it last weekend in the same walkthrough. I guess we just have to wait for the 2017 annual report to go online, both for Prague and Berlin ;)
     
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  6. Zoo Tycooner FR

    Zoo Tycooner FR Well-Known Member

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    @lintworm , @Vision Actually, in August 2017, only common tern was listed as well but I haven't seen any and Berlin is supposed to have only one Arctic tern. I think that since Berlin held the former species until 2010, they just made a mistake/were too lazy to update the sign and instead went with a common tern sign (and they do look a bit like Arctic terns :D )

    If it's of any relief, I have seen the yellownape in August and it was kept with the Oriental pied hornbill but as according to lintworm, none were visible (or signed?); maybe both went off-show (though that's only a supposition. In any case, the Red-bellied fruit-doves are a nice addition.

    Haven't seen the sunbird nor the coucal

    I still do not know where I'm going to put my vote but both zoos are great zoos (some of my favourites) and a long-overdue revisit to Prague is needed for me. They are faring well in birds and both have some tremendous exhibits and nice collections (a bit less on carnivores but it still acceptable imo) but I will wait for other people's opinion before voting.
     
  7. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Moderator Staff Member

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    I basically agree with Vision's summary of the two zoos, except that for me the more varied exhibit styles at Prague tip the balance for birds.

    Berlin takes carnivores due to the mentioned diversity of bears and pinnepeds, but frankly both zoos underperform enclosurewise in this area.

    Ive voted Prague almost on my gut instinct that it is better for birds than Berlin is for carnivores. Truth be told, I think I just prefer the way Prague's collection is distributed around the site more; I applaud Berlin for building the Bird House and maintaining their style or approach, and it's not about geographic regions, I'd just rather see birds throughout the day than nothing but birds for two hours. The same for carnivores obviously.
     
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  8. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member

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    Carnivores

    Both: Dwarf mongoose; meerkat; jaguarundi; fennec; polar bear; tayra; Cape fur seal; ring-tailed coati

    Berlin
    Eastern ring-tailed vontsira; northern narrow-striped boky
    Arabian sand cat; ocelot; Sri Lankan rusty-spotted cat; lion (including Barbary); North Persian leopard; jaguar
    Wolf; African wild dog
    Giant panda; Asiatic black and Indian sloth bears
    Asian small-clawed otter
    Northern fur seal; California sea lion
    Eastern Atlantic harbour seal
    Kinkajou

    Prague
    Philippine palm civet; Palawan binturong
    Brown hyena
    Yellow mongoose; dark cusimanse
    Common caracal; South African cheetah; oncilla; fishing cat; Palawan leopard cat; Indochinese clouded leopard; Malayan, Sumatran and Siberian tigers; Asiatic lion; Amur and Javan leopards
    Arctic fox; South African bat-eared fox; bush dog; maned wolf; Eurasian wolf
    North American river and Indochinese smooth-coated otters; Central African ratel
    Striped skunk
    Northern Raccoon; white-nosed coati
    Nepalese red panda

    Berlin has Madagascan mongooses and a true seal; Prague has civets, a hyena, a skunk and a red panda, so wins on family diversity.



    Birds
    Both:
    Common emu; southern cassowary; Humboldt penguin; Dalmatian pelican; little bittern; Southern boat-billed heron; Abdim’s, marabou and black storks; hamerkop; black-faced, scarlet and Madagascar crested ibises; waldrapp; Eurasian spoonbill; Chilean and greater flamingos; crested screamer; ferruginous, white-winged and Mandarin ducks; red-crested pochard; Smew; ruddy shelduck; red-breasted and swan geese; Eurasian green-winged, red-shouldered and Hottentot teals; northern shoveler; bufflehead; garganey; common eider; Bahama and northern pintails; ruddy shelduck; emperor, red-breasted and magpie geese; king vulture; bald and bateleur eagles; western Egyptian, western Eurasian griffon, bearded and hooded vultures; Edwards's pheasant; grey and Palawan peacock-pheasants; red-crowned crane; red-legged seriema; African wattled and masked lapwings; ruff; pied avocet; cinnamon and ruddy ground-doves; crested dove; green-naped pheasant-pigeon; Nicobar and Wonga pigeons; Luzon bleeding-heart; Eurasian great grey and spectacled owls; tawny frogmouth; hyacinth macaw; kea; white cockatoo; Guira cuckoo; white-bellied go-away bird; blue-winged kookaburra; common hoopoe; southern ground and Visayan tarictic hornbills; greater yellow-naped woodpecker; red-whiskered bulbul; Asian fairy-bluebird; Cuban grassquit; blue-faced honeyeater; red-billed leiothrix; white-backed magpie; Bali mynah; Java sparrow; Asian glossy starling; spotted palm-thrush; village weaver

    Berlin (bold); Prague (italic)
    South African ostrich;
    Common ostrich
    Greater rhea; lesser rhea
    Northern brown kiwi
    Tataupa tinamou;
    Elegant crested tinamou
    Western rockhopper, jackass and king penguins
    American white, pink-backed and Australian pelicans;
    great white and spot-billed pelicans; little pied cormorant
    Asian woolly-necked stork; Western cattle egret; Indian and Javan pond herons; Puna ibis; squacco heron; Black-crowned and Philippine rufous night herons; African open-billed, yellow-billed, milky and European white storks; African and roseate spoonbills; American white, glossy, Hadada, black-headed and straw-necked ibises; shoebill
    Andean, lesser and James’ flamingos; Caribbean flamingo.
    Fulvous, West Indian and White-faced whistling, Magellanic steamer, North American wood, North American ruddy, Philippine, yellow-billed and bronze-winged ducks; common goldeneye; Chiloe and Eurasian wigeons; Chilean pintail; Argentine shoveler; rosy-billed, tufted, South African and common pochards; Bernier's, sharp-winged and falcated teals; common shelduck; European greater scaup; Greenland white-fronted, bar-headed, blue-winged, Egyptian, Hawaiian, snow and barnacle geese; black, Coscoroba, whooper and black-necked swans; Eurasian and hooded mergansers; Atlantic harlequin, Patagonian crested, South African black, White-headed, ruddy and Muscovy ducks; Brazilian, speckled and marbled teals; northern mallard; paradise shelduck; red-breasted and scaly-sided mergansers; Cape barren, Indian pygmy, lesser white-fronted and giant Canada geese; Bewick's swan
    Andean condor; African fish and golden eagles; northern Harris' hawk; palm-nut and white-headed vultures; crested caracara Western honey and common buzzards; Harris' hawk; lesser yellow-headed and Eurasian black vultures; red kite; Steller's sea eagle; secretary bird; European and lesser kestrels
    Asian blue and harlequin quails; crested wood partridge; black francolin; Malayan crested and Siamese fireback pheasants; Lady Amherst's pheasant; Malaysian great argus; Germain’s peacock-pheasant; grey and red junglefowl; yellow-necked francolin; Natal Helmeted guineafowl; bare-faced and great curassows; blue-throated piping-guan; Australian brush-turkey; Cheer, golden, Salvadori's, Vietnamese and Elliot's pheasants; bronze-tailed and Malayan peacock-pheasants; Temminck's tragopan; Indian and Javanese green peafowl; Sri Lankan jungle fowl; brown-breasted hill and grey partridges; vulturine guineafowl; northern helmeted curassow; Gray`s piping-guan
    Eastern grey-crowned and Indian sarus cranes; kagu; sunbittern; East African white-bellied bustard; corn crake; Spotted crake; west Mediterranean purple swamphen; wattled, white-naped, blue, Eurasian and demoiselle cranes
    Arctic and inca terns; common ringed plover; long-toed lapwing; ruddy turnstone; common redshank; Eurasian curlew; black-necked stilt; Spotted dikkop; Black-winged stilt; blacksmith, southern and northern lapwings; bush, Peruvian and European thick-knees; common tern; Eurasian oystercatcher
    Arabian chestnut-bellied and four-banded sandgrouses

    Bar-tailed cuckoo-dove; red-necked Sulawesi ground-dove; crested quail-dove; emerald, Namaqua and laughing doves; Indian emerald dove; black-naped, orange-fronted and coroneted, red-bellied, superb and western orange-bellied fruit-doves; Mindanao bleeding-heart; Madagascar turtle dove; rock pigeon; African collared and Chinese spotted doves; ashy and common wood pigeons; chestnut-naped, pink-headed , spotted and pied imperial, Philippine metallic, pink-necked green, western crowned, stock and pink pigeons
    Common barn Owl; ferruginous pygmy, northern white-faced scops and snowy owls; European eagle-owl; Buffy fish-owl; common and Philippine scops, South European and western Ural , Oriental bay, little and European boreal owls
    Black-billed, Cuban, red-lored, white-fronted and blue-fronted amazons; citron-crested, palm, red-tailed black and Major Mitchell's cockatoos; galah; blue-winged, Mexican green military, red-fronted and great green macaws; eclectus, swift, turquoise and hooded parrots; mountain and rose-headed parakeets; Tanimbar corella; coconut and Goldie's lorikeets; Blue-and-yellow and Lear's macaws; Edwards's fig, blue-naped, golden-shouldered, grey, Pesquet's, large fig, burrowing, Moszkowski green-winged king, vernal hanging, Red-rumped, superb and Bourke's parrots; northern rosella; brown, western black and purple-naped lories; red-tailed, yellow-billed and southern festive amazons; esser palm cockatoo; cockatiel; budgerigar; eastern rosella; greater Patagonian conure; monk parakeet; Mindanao, rainbow, Stella's, Sumba, scaly-breasted and Mitchell's lorikeets
    Blue-naped and Kikuyu speckled mousebirds; Mombasa speckled and speckled mousebirds
    Channel-billed cuckoo; greater roadrunner
    Black-faced go-away bird; violet and white-cheeked turacos
    Abyssinian ground, northern pied, silvery-cheeked and Visayan tarictic and Polillo hornbills; blue-bellied and purple rollers; northern carmine and white-fronted bee-eaters; green woodhoopoe; brown-hooded kingfisher; laughing kookaburra;
    Eastern yellow-billed, western long-tailed, Javan rhinoceros, Luzon, Northern rufous and great hornbills; European roller
    Bearded, red-and-yellow and D'Arnaud's barbets; black-necked and pale-billed aracaris
    Red avadavat; red and southern red bishops; scarlet-headed blackbird; western bluebill; white-eared, common and white-spectacled bulbuls; red-rumped cacique; yellow-fronted canary; northern cardinal; white-eared catbird; red-cheeked and blue-capped cordonbleus; spangled cotinga; pied crow; black-faced dacnis; black-throated, cut-throat, double-banded, Gouldian, long-tailed, masked, star and chestnut-eared finches; Uganda red-billed and vinaceous firefinches; long-tailed fiscal; blue grosbeak; Chestnut-backed ground-thrush; barred and white-crested laughing thrushes; red-billed blue and green magpies; trumpet manucode; chestnut-breasted munia; greater hill and common mynas; grey-headed oliveback; bearded parrotbill; red-throated and tricolor parrotfinches; red-winged pytilia; African quail finch; white-necked raven; black-and-white seedeater; African silverbill; greater blue-eared glossy, Asian pied, Brahminy, emerald, golden-breasted, Rueppell's glossy, wattled, superb and amethyst starlings; copper sunbird; blue-grey, paradise and Brazilian tanagers; Sunda whistling, black-breasted and orange-headed thrushes; Dybowski's and Peters's twinspots; common and zebra waxbills; white-headed buffalo, speckle-fronted, Taveta golden and grey-headed social-weaver; Kilimanjaro white-eye

    Brush, New Guinea and common bronzewings; black-headed bulbul; Eurasian bullfinch; red-cowled cardinal; common chaffinch; house and saffron finches; helmeted friarbird; European goldfinch; greenfinch; black-headed and Oriental greenfinches; orange-headed ground-thrush; horned lark; black-throated, red-fronted, red-winged, rufous-cheeked, scaly, Siamese White-crested, Silver-eared, spotted, Sumatran, Sunda, White-throated, red-tailed and blue-crowned laughing thrushes; blue-winged leafbird; Emei Shan and scarlet-faced liocichlas; Javan green magpie; golden-headed manakin; crested, hill, yellow-faced and golden-crested mynas; Eurasian golden oriole; crested and green oropendolas; Sunda hooded pitta; common raven; redpoll; Siberian rubythroat; white-rumped shama; Eurasian siskin; red-winged, scissor-billed, white-shouldered, rosy, coleto and European starlings; Eurasian song thrush; white wagtail; Boehm`s and red-billed buffalo weavers

    Berlin has a kiwi and cuckoos; Prague has sandgrouses. Berlin wins on bird orders.


    Berlin has more species of penguins, waterfowl, pigeons, kingfishers, woodpeckers and perching birds; Prague has more herons, raptors, fowl, cranes, shorebirds, owls, parrots, mousebirds. Prague wins on species in orders.

    Berlin wins on mongooses; Prague wins on dogs, mustelids and raccoons. Prague wins on species in families and wins overall, but it is very close.
     
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  9. antonmuster

    antonmuster Well-Known Member

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    This seems to be the new consensus view on Berlin on this site. I just cannot agree with it. For me, Berlin's enclosures for these species are substandard to adequate. Maybe my perception is skewed, because my frame of reference are the bear and/or big cat enclosures in Bern, Zurich, and Arth-Goldau. On the other hand, there are countless other zoos whose enclosures for these species are also leagues better than Berlin's. I think Vienna is a good example of what Berlin could and should be doing - and Vienna is much more restricted space-wise than Berlin, so there really is no excuse. Improving tiny enclosures to smallish ones, with few natural features beyond an open lawn, hardly any cover or space to retreat to always keeping the animals in plain sight of visitors (exception: tigers), and - afaik - little if any behavioral enrichment, a decent enclosure do not make - imo. Perhaps Berlin has improved tremendously under new management in the four years since my last visit - I somehow doubt that though. And regarding felines, this is talking about the comparatively good enclosures. Don't even get me started on the countless under ten square meter bath-tile cells for their smaller carnivores - especially since these enclosures are not an exception (as is Prague's polar bear enclosure), but in many ways reflective of the zoo overall. It's a shame really that Berlin will likely be winning this competition (at least partly) on carnivores. For me, this category basically disqualifies Berlin in the head to head.

    (Big) carnivores isn't particularly Prague's strength either - as has already been mentioned - but their enclosures are still consistently much richer in natural structure.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    On birds the match is more. Both have some very nice enclosures and an interesting collection. I can follow arguments in favor of Berlin here. But even here Prague's enclosures had a charm on me I simply did not feel as consistently in Berlin. Particularly, Berlin's new bird house - which apparently has been improved considerably since I saw it - didn't do anything for me (with the exception of the free flight halls which are decent, but imo in no way excellent) - the planting in the aviaries is either not present at all or completely random, the wire-mesh is visually very intrusive, most aviaries are small, their line-up feels cramped and unimaginative, visitor space must be more than ten-fold (!) the space available to the birds, the education is unimaginative, and to add insult to injury, they marketed it as 'the most modern birdhouse in the world'. As far as I was concerned, it might as well not have been there. So in Berlin birds for me were just as much a disappointment as a delight, and again I see Prague ahead - as with carnivores mostly due to Berlin's weaknesses, rather than Prague's strengths.

    It's a shame really, because I feel Berlin could (and should?) be the zoo of zoos - if only Vienna could show them the way ;)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2018
  10. Mr. Zootycoon

    Mr. Zootycoon Well-Known Member

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    While the Bird House does lack some of the charm of the old Pheasantry, I never felt such negativity when walking through it. Although visitor space could be less (I haven't seen it on a crowded day, so maybe it was not representative) and the macaws don't have enough room for real flight, the majority of the bird enclosures were fine, and the walkthroughs were great if not a bit empty on birds. Vegation was present in most of the enclosures (with the very logical lack of it in the parrot section), and in many cases lush. I have seen it after renovation, just to be clear.

    The wader aviary close to the birdhouse became an unexpected highlight of my visit, and certainly deserves some points here.
     
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  11. lintworm

    lintworm Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    When compared to Prague's bear and cat enclosures they compare favorably however. Compared with Zurich, Burgers or Vienna it would indeed be instant disqualification... Prague's cat house is in no way better than Berlins carnivore house and their Polar bear enclosurw is in a negative league of its own and Wuppertal.

    Here, I never thought I would be defending Berlin's carnivore housing, but there you go...
     
  12. TZDugong

    TZDugong Well-Known Member

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    This vote went from an obvious win for Berlin, to a tight competition! Only 2 votes separate the two zoos now, and if Prague can nip past Berlin, this surely would be the comeback of the tournament.

    As for who I voted for, right now it's Berlin, mostly due to the fact that there are TWO big bird houses. It is very close right now though, and I really am finding it hard to choose between the two.:)
     
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  13. pachyderm pro

    pachyderm pro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23 Aug 2016
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    1,452
    Location:
    The City of Big Shoulders
    Prague is making a massive comeback and has taken the lead 19-17. Nothing fits a grand finale more than a neck and neck matchup like this.
     
  14. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Wilds of Northumberland
    It was 18-18 an hour ago, so the change is due to a defection :p
     
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  15. dublinlion

    dublinlion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2 Nov 2011
    Posts:
    318
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I would pick Prague for birds (bop and storks esp.) and Berlin for carnivores. So content that these are probably the best two zoos I would vote for Berlin.
     
  16. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2017
    Posts:
    459
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Darn, I've been caught! In all seriousness, Prague deserves the win more because I really think it is more deserving than Berlin due to it's nice bird and carnivore collections (I'm also a sucker for African wildlife, especially shoebills!).

    -:cool::cool:TheWalrus:cool::cool:
     
  17. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2009
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    Location:
    Melbourne
    And after a couple of days of sitting on the fence I've fallen on Berlin's side. The quality of the bird house is what tips it for me.

    Only needs one defection now to tie things back up.
     
  18. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2010
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    Wilds of Northumberland
    It *would* be tied now had I not switched from Berlin to Prague myself about 30 minutes ago :p
     
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  19. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2009
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    1,969
    Location:
    Melbourne
    And we're all tied up.
     
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  20. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    3 Sep 2013
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    1,287
    Location:
    Baltic Sea