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ZooChat Cup Group A: Los Angeles vs Munich

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 13 Oct 2019.

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Los Angeles vs Munich: carnivores

Poll closed 15 Oct 2019.
  1. Los Angeles 3-0 Munich

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Los Angeles 2-1 Munich

    11.1%
  3. Munich 2-1 Los Angeles

    88.9%
  4. Munich 3-0 Los Angeles

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    No pressure at all, but this match is essentially a knock-out: the winner advances, the loser doesn’t, so think (and then re-think) your vote through. The topic: carnivores.
     
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  2. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Munich species list:

    Arctic fox
    Eurasian gray wolf
    European golden jackal
    European wolverine
    Fishing cat
    Lion
    Maned wolf
    Meerkat
    Nepalese red panda
    Northern lynx
    Northern raccoon
    Polar bear
    Siberian pallas' cat
    Siberian tiger
    South American sea lion

    (15 species)
    I don't know what LA has to offer but I will try and find a reliable list :)
     
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  3. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Hmmmm couldn't really find many carnivore images for Munich but....

    munich arctic fox.jpg
    Arctic fox enclosure in Polar world; very good from what I can see...

    munich lion.jpg

    An all right lion enclosure...

    munich meerkat.jpg

    A good meerkat enclosure

    munich sea lion.jpg

    An all right sea lion enclosure... I dont really like it from what I have seen...

    I couldn't really find many others.
     
  4. snowleopard

    snowleopard Well-Known Member 15+ year member Premium Member

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    We'll need someone to post a comprehensive species list for Los Angeles Zoo, but I can point out that L.A. has really poor exhibits for African Lions (one of the worst I've seen in a major zoo), Tigers and American Black Bears. To have three carnivore species in very poor exhibits is inexcusable.

    For now I'm voting 2-1 Munich
     
  5. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    The same applies to the Munich exhibit for the same species, so that point cancels itself out:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    The Lion enclosure is fortunately an exception, with the other enclosures all pretty good and the Polar bear one is one of the best ones in Germany.
     
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  7. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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    LA species:

    - Jaguar
    - African Lion
    - Sumatran Tiger
    - Snow Leopard
    - Serval
    - Ocelot
    - Fossa
    - Meerkat
    - African Painted Dog
    - Bat-eared Fox
    - American Black Bear
    - Giant Otter
    - Harbor Seal

    LA's carnivore exhibits are hit or miss. I agree with @snowleopard about the lions and bears having poor enclosures; I don't know that I'd call the tiger enclosure "poor" - mediocre, maybe - but I've certainly seen many better ones.

    Meanwhile, the giant otters have probably the best carnivore exhibit in the entire zoo: a large, sandy enclosure in RotA with a cascading stream and two pools both with underwater viewing, one large enough to fit the 7 or so otters that once lived there. The otters love to slide down their stream into the pool and they're a delight to watch. The jaguar exhibit is also in RotA and relatively new; it's pretty good with a decent area, plantings, and a pool, though I wouldn't call it anything more than pretty good. The painted dogs also have a very nice yard with long grass. The snow leopards have what I think is a very good exhibit as well: it's not the most aesthetically pleasing, but it's almost entirely rocky with hiding spaces and is also a good size.

    The remaining species have so-so exhibits. The servals, ocelots, fossa, and bat-eared fox live in roundhouses; none of them are remarkable. The meerkats live in a small sandy grotto that is typical for their species. The seals live in a rocky aquatic exhibit by the entrance that has sufficient depth and size, but nothing impressive; surely in the middle tier of pinniped exhibits (in North America at least).

    I'm gonna wait to vote until I hear more about Munich; this isn't LA's strongest category, but it has a lot of cool species with which Munich has little overlap, and I think the giant otter habitat is one of the highlights of the entire zoo. Whether that makes up for its sad lion and bear habitats remains to be seen.
     
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  8. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    Definitely agreed :)
     
  9. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    On another note, care to explain why you believe LA deserves the clean sweep @drill ? If you have anything solid to contribute it might help people make a more reasoned decision!
     
  10. drill

    drill Well-Known Member

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    That was a mistake.
     
  11. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Well-Known Member

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    Are the aforementioned roundhouses the rather notorious ones?

    This is a real strength of Munich's; the voting is reflecting that.
     
  12. birdsandbats

    birdsandbats Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I'm with @Coelacanth18 here, I want to hear more about Munich before I vote.
     
  13. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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    Yes, although I really don't think they should be. They are notable in their uniformity of design, I guess. They are not aesthetically pleasing and the zoo is planning to replace all of them over the next several years, but I think the degree to which they have been maligned is not really justified. They are poor choices for some of the species they hold, but as it pertains to this match they make adequate enclosures for small carnivores.
     
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  14. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I agree. There is nothing inherently wrong with the roundhouses, and they make great enclosures for many of the species housed in them. Unfortunately, there are some species that are just too big to be kept in these older enclosures.

    Atm I'm going to vote 2-1 LA simply because I don't see Munich's exhibitry being all too far off from LA's in terms of some being good and others being bad. I know LA also is a major breeder of Giant Otters in the US, a species which has a pretty excellent habitat at the zoo. The Lion enclosure in particular is bad, but the Jaguar habitat is really good. From what's been posted, it sounds like similar comparisons can be made about Munich.

    ~Thylo
     
  15. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Here are quit a few photos of LA exhibits, and they kinda persuaded me to change my vote to 2-1 LA. I would be interested to see your reactions...

    LA african painted dog.jpg LA african wild dog.jpg
    Too images of a decent African wild dog enclosure: the weather in LA is good for the dogs because it is similar-ish to that of the Savanna. Can't really see the enclosure very well, but it seems to be a large-ish paddock for the dogs and seems to be all right.

    LA bat eared fox.jpg

    Now for the roundhouses. I am not a fan of these, like many of the people on this forum, but they do give the animals enough space, and cover, and they would be nice enclosures if they weren't roundhouses... They are going to renovate them soon though...

    LA fossa enclosure.jpg
    LA ocelot enclosure 2.jpg
    LA ocelot enclosure.jpg
    LA serval enclosure 2.jpg
    LA serval enclosure.jpg
    And some more roundhouse-style enclosures...

    LA ringtail cat.jpg

    Then a good indoor enclosure for ringtail cats, with what I think is an outdoor enclosure next door (which I couldn't find a photo of)

    More in the next post
     
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  16. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    OK so now we move onto the larger carnivore enclosures:

    LA giant otter enclosure 2.jpg
    LA giant otter enclosure 3 .jpg
    A very good giant otter enclosure (certainly miles better than that of Pairi Daiza) with underwater viewing, two large lakes with other river wildlife such as stingrays and tetras, and a nicely landscaped land area.

    LA harbor seal enclosure.jpg
    LA harbor seal.jpg
    Then another nice enclosure for harbour seals and California sea lions. It is quite large, with a massive pool and good underwater viewing, along with a nicely-landscaped land area with lots of places to hide for the seals.

    LA jaguar enclosure 2.jpg
    LA jaguar enclosure 3.jpg
    LA jaguar enclosure 4.jpg
    LA jaguar enclosure 5.jpg
    LA jaguar enclosure.jpg
    An all right jaguar enclosure, netted and with a decently-large pool. Quite spacious compared to San Diego's, etc...
    Good viewing areas.

    LA snow leopard enclosure.jpg

    And a decent snow leopard enclosure, with lots of rocks, although the weather isn't very suited to their needs....

    More in the next post...
     
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  17. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    And some other exhibits:

    LA meerkat enclosure.jpg
    LA meerkat exhibit.jpg
    A good meerkat enclosure, with nice landscaping and a good indoor enclosure in the Nursery for offspring...

    LA maned wolf.jpg
    Not the best maned wolf enclosure around...

    LA lion enclosure.jpg

    Both Munich and LA have equally bad lion enclosures, so they cancel each other out to some extent...

    LA tiger enclosure.jpg

    And finally a decent tiger enclosure which could be more thickly planted, but it is a decent size....
     
  18. NSU42

    NSU42 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I may be inclined to follow your opinion. Thank you for the images. I always scroll through the galleries, but some are very large and I don't always have time to find everything.
     
  19. Mehdi

    Mehdi Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    One point people seem to forget is the excellent exhibit Münich has for its wolverines, one of the best exhibits in the whole zoo. The rest is either adequate or good (except for aforementioned lion exhibit).

    I'm going to vote 2-1 for Münich.
     
  20. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member Premium Member 5+ year member

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    Thanks for posting those photos @amur leopard. A few thoughts and points:

    - LA no longer holds ringtails; I'm not sure what's in their enclosure now.

    - The seal/sea lion exhibit isn't actually as large as it appears; the back half of the enclosure in the first photo is set lower than the front half, so it gives the illusion of distance where there is none. Still, I can confirm that the pools are deep and the underwater viewing is good.

    - Looking back at photos, I might have not given the jaguar habitat enough credit. It needs more vegetation in it I think, but the pool, the lush grass, and the overall size make for a functional and good-looking exhibit.

    - I had forgotten about the maned wolf habitat; probably LA's third-worst carnivore exhibit after the lions and bears. Those habitats date back to the 1960's and they're uninspiring at best for all of their inhabitants. I wish the maned wolf had a yard more like the painted dogs, which as you can see from the pics is a good size and very grassy.
     
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