Both zoos need this one after losses in their first matches: narrow but shocking in Berlin’s case, a comprehensive shellacking in San Diego’s. This time they’re going head to head on primates. The rules: You have three votes to award. If you think it's a tight match, award 2 votes to the stronger zoo and 1 to the weaker one. But if you think it's a wider margin than that, award all 3 votes to the winner. Your criteria for how you make your decision is entirely up to you, *except* that you must stay only within the given category. That includes ignoring the results of the other match: no strategic voting. All votes are public, and all votes can be changed. The purpose of the game is to provoke debate, so make your case for why people should vote the same way as you do. Be open to reconsidering your vote.
Yeesh, this cup is not in San Diego's favor is it? SDZSP literally only has Western Lowland Gorilla on-exhibit in what I ironically remember being a decent but completely forgettable enclosure. From my visit in September 2018, Berlin kept 21 species: -Brazilian Black Howler -Colombian Spider Monkey -Geoffroy's Marmoset -Graells's Tamarin -Cotton-Top Tamarin -Weeper Capuchin -Common Squirrel Monkey -Hamlyn's Monkey -Stump-Tailed Macaque* -Lion-Tailed Macaque -Toque Macaque -Drill -Hamadryas Baboon -Western Lowland Gorilla -Bonobo -Western Chimpanzee -Sumatran Orangutan -Pileated Gibbon -Siamang -White-Fronted Lemur -Coppery Titi *IIRC the Stump-Tailed Macaques left shortly after my visit but I think they were replaced by a different macaque species so the number remains the same. Not all of Berlin's enclosures are great and I'm personally not a big fan of tiled-style indoor primate housing but Berlin has an undeniably great collection with an excellent breeding record and the only enclosures (from memory) I'd describe as being bad are those for their gibbons. Their Great Ape outdoor enclosures are all pretty good imo. I think I have no choice but to give Berlin all three points for this one! ~Thylo
I admit to cringing a little when it came up in the random number generator I use, but it is what it is.
San Diego Zoo Safari Park has Lowland Gorillas and Ring-tailed Lemurs...and is that really it? Wow. This particular match-up is as clear a case for a 3-0 victory as can possibly be imagined. I was at SDZSP in 2017 and Berlin Zoo a couple of months ago and this head-to-head is literally no contest. I believe that the German zoo has 21 species on-show at the moment. Berlin wins 3-0 in a romp!
I forgot about the island tbh. I was thinking about the small, narrow cage their Siamang was in in the monkey house on my visit. ~Thylo
I made note of 23 primate species at Berlin Zoo during my August 8th, 2019, visit. Lowland Gorilla Sumatran Orangutan Chimpanzee Bonobo Siamang Mandrill Hamadryas Baboon Weeper Capuchin Brown-headed Spider Monkey Black Howler Monkey Owl-faced Monkey Toque Macaque Japanese Macaque Lion-tailed Macaque Hanuman Langur Red Titi Silvered Leaf Monkey Squirrel Monkey Goeldi’s Monkey Cotton-top Tamarin Emperor Tamarin Black-mantled Tamarin White-fronted Marmoset There might even be a 24th species, although I don't recall seeing a gibbon island anywhere. Either way, Berlin trounces SDZSP in this particular category.
There is a Pileated gibbon island at the back of the carnivore house, but likely the path from which it is most easily viewed is closed because of the ongoing renovations.
I don't like Berlin's Primate House. The line-up is amazing, but the enclosures are hum-drum at best. I don't think there is much good to say about exhibit quality. This is a category where Berlin is vulnerable, and yet SDZSP is an open goal that it will slide three quick penalties into.
I don't think they are really. They are not bad, certainly; they look much better in comparison to the 'Monkey Wing' of the building. However, if I was being harsh I would say: bonobos - small, gorillas - small, chimps - boring, orangs - boring.
I'm not really comfortable with giving Berlin 3 points for primates. I found the monkey house probably the least enjoyable part of my day there, thought the fact that it was the only place where it was really crowded probably influenced my experience greatly. I found the enclosures quite small and relatively boring. The species line-up was very good, but I wouldn't mind if they reduced it to half its size to double the space for the inhabitants left. There was little that was acutally horrendous or truly unacceptable, but I found the whole thing rather unpleasant. The ape enclosures were much better, but still relatively standard and limited in size. The fact that it was very quiet, with all of the apes fully engaged in natural behaviour made it stand out as the major positive primate experience that day. Berlin for me is an unpleasant experience in an overcrowded monkey house and some rather standard ape exhibits. Is that worth a 3-0 victory against San Diego? Alas, it seems to be the case. Is there nothing remarkable or particularly good about the SD gorilla or lemur enclosure? It both are fine enclosures I may lean towards a 2-1 win for Berlin instead of 3-0, for what it's worth.
Those words also shifted my vote that way too. I visited the Safari Park in January abd their only two primates still had good exhibits (with the gorillas having the second-best enclosure for the species I ever saw: only beaten by Bronx)
